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Subject: Redesign - to MR fans : do I deserve it ? rss

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Mark W
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carthaginian wrote:
Wow! would it be possible to redact it in a way concise enough so as to encapsulate all information on the small original chit??

Well, what you made there is much better than the original. You may have to refer to the rulebook still, but not as often.

carthaginian wrote:
hmmm. you wouldn't need to know what treasure is on the map? you wouldn't need a chit for "flower rest" one for "sacred grail", one for "glowing gem", etc..? in which case you'd need a bag full of treasure tokens

Well theoretically you could need a pair of tokens per treasure, but in my experience, the vast majority of treasures will not be discovered during an entire game. You tend not to have single treasures scattered about the map - you're more likely to have a few stacks of treaures on the map - they tend to bunch together. For example when a character or native group dies, they leave a stack of treasures. You could use one token per stack. In the end, the "fiddliness" of one method vs. another would have to be tested.

carthaginian wrote:
I was thinking of coloring the chits in keeping to the dice color, what do you think? the Tremendous Troll would then be outlined blue on the light side, with a blue background... the Tremendous Dragon would still be red, with the Demon in green...

I would love for the monster colors to match the die colors. I just think the dragons should not be red, in order to avoid confusion - the "red side" of tremendous monsters is mentioned in the rules in several places - it holds a special meaning.

It might even be a good idea to leave the insta-kill side red for all Tremendous monsters, again just to avoid confusion. This would not affect the monster die color scheme at all - the red side of T monsters can only face up during combat (never on the setup sheet, and never on the map).[/q]

carthaginian wrote:
side question : Would notoriety, fame, gold tokens would be a good idea in this game?

I think technically you keep N, F and G secret on your sheet. So tokens would require a screen like in Tigris & Euphrates... If you can remove the need for pencils entirely, I'd be very impressed.
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Jorge Arroyo
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carthaginian wrote:

Wow! would it be possible to redact it in a way concise enough so as to encapsulate all information on the small original chit??



You could do that, but you'd have to be real careful not to introduce any more ambiguities into the rules, MR is already complex enough

BTW, nice looking card!

Quote:

NeonPeon wrote:
In my experience you rarely have more than a few piles of treasure on the map for the entire game. Others' mileage my vary however.

hmmm. you wouldn't need to know what treasure is on the map? you wouldn't need a chit for "flower rest" one for "sacred grail", one for "glowing gem", etc..? in which case you'd need a bag full of treasure tokens


I think the ideal would be to have a token on the map for all the treasures on that clearing, then a corresponding token on the table on top of all the treasure cards for that clearing. That way you'd use less tokens and it could be easily managed...

Quote:

side question : Would notoriety, fame, gold tokens would be a good idea in this game?


If you want to completely remove any writing from the game, you'd need some kind of token for those. I think some kind of large Character Sheet (like in Return of the Heroes or Arkham Horror) to organize all the information would be very useful. Ideally it would also list all the hidden paths/secret passages to mark with a token the ones your character has found, and maybe have a space to put the order tokens/cards

-Jorge

 
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Chakroun Karim
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update on the setup chart. Readability has clearly improved, the downside is that it is now 420*594mm -17"*24" (A2 size)... hehe, BIG. Well, twice the original.
It would fold in 4, like most other board games.


edit: the '1' dice color will change

Update : treasure cards. They can still change if we find a good compromise between original intent, size, and 'fiddlyness'. Just trying to lay things down and check if I got the hierarchy straight.
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Asher D.
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Hi, just a noob here, played a couple of games on realmspeak, and don't even have all the rules down (that's an understatement ).
Great work carthaginian, this is beautiful. I think you could consider getting in touch with Valley Games and see if they can swing a reprint (they have done that for some games thought impossible to get) - the artwork is certainly of professional quality.

You mentioned tokens for gold, fame and notoriety. A screen would be one option for secrecy. Another would be like the VPs in Puerto Rico or Ra, one sided chits of several values so the exact number isn't showing by the size of your stack. Could that work?

For added flavor, the treasure cards could have a faint depiction of the treasure as a background. Really faint as to not interfere with the text readability, but I think this could make them really stand out.

Happy to see such a great effort to revive this great game.

 
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Roberto Ullfig
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carthaginian wrote:
update on the setup chart. Readability has clearly improved, the downside is that it is now 420*594mm -17"*24" (A2 size)... hehe, BIG. Well, twice the original.
It would fold in 4, like most other board games.


edit: the '1' dice color will change

Update : treasure cards. They can still change if we find a good compromise between original intent, size, and 'fiddlyness'. Just trying to lay things down and check if I got the hierarchy straight.


You've added ambiguity with your two boots cards. Inferior means less than so only Light characters can now wear your Quick Boots.
 
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Chakroun Karim
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robo wrote:
carthaginian wrote:
update on the setup chart. Readability has clearly improved, the downside is that it is now 420*594mm -17"*24" (A2 size)... hehe, BIG. Well, twice the original.
It would fold in 4, like most other board games.


edit: the '1' dice color will change

Update : treasure cards. They can still change if we find a good compromise between original intent, size, and 'fiddlyness'. Just trying to lay things down and check if I got the hierarchy straight.


You've added ambiguity with your two boots cards. Inferior means less than so only Light characters can now wear your Quick Boots.


You're right!, I'll fix that and the wording, would sthing like "Activated if weight ≤ L" be too dry? or "Only characters of L or M weight can..."
 
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Todd
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Cathaginian,

Any word on where you will store all the redesigned bits and the file format for the completed works?

Thanks,
Maus
 
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Chakroun Karim
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Maus wrote:
Cathaginian,

Any word on where you will store all the redesigned bits and the file format for the completed works?

Thanks,
Maus


I would like to store it here, but I expect the PDF files to become quite voluminous; I think it will end on my personal site like my PR redesign... it's a bit far away though; lots of things to do yet.
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Matt Becker
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One correction - The Scroll of Nature contains two Type II spells and two Type III spells, not four Type II spells.

Beautiful work, Karim.
 
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Jorge Montero
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The boots clarification is not necessary IMO: If you can't use the chit to move, you can't use the item, as simple as that.

Color coding the icon indicating a treasure's size is a really good idea: One of the most common ways of cheating involuntarily is to be carrying a heavy item that's just being kept face down. The easier it is to notice the item's weigh, the better.
 
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Chakroun Karim
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mrb88 wrote:
One correction - The Scroll of Nature contains two Type II spells and two Type III spells, not four Type II spells.

Beautiful work, Karim.


Thanks for your help, corrected!

hibikir wrote:
The boots clarification is not necessary IMO: If you can't use the chit to move, you can't use the item, as simple as that.


I think the ambiguity arises from the fact that my wording means "<" =inferior but it in reality it should be "≤" =inferior or equal

edit: oh, I see...
 
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KK Su
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Just like to say that this is all brilliant work, Karim

One thing I'd like to see is different icons to represent Magic I, Magic II, etc. I believe that they currently represent the following magical categories:

Magic I (White Magic): Divine, holy magic.
Magic II (Grey Magic): Pagan magic.
Magic III (Gold Magic): Elven/Faerie magic.
Magic IV (Purple Magic): Elemental energy magic.
Magic V (Black Magic): Demonic magic.
Magic VI (no specific colour): Conjuring magic.
Magic VII (no specific colour): Good luck knacks.
Magic VIII (no specific colour): Malicious tricks.

Even a simple white cross icon to represent "Magic I", or a black pentagram icon to represent "Magic V" would greatly enhance the game experience. Plus, it'll probably save space on those chits and cards.
 
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Mark W
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TaleSpinner wrote:
Even a simple white cross icon to represent "Magic I", or a black pentagram icon to represent "Magic V" would greatly enhance the game experience. Plus, it'll probably save space on those chits and cards.

I second this - it would be very helpful to see which color a magic type corresponds to.
 
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Chakroun Karim
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TaleSpinner wrote:
Just like to say that this is all brilliant work, Karim

One thing I'd like to see is different icons to represent Magic I, Magic II, etc. I believe that they currently represent the following magical categories:

Magic I (White Magic): Divine, holy magic.
Magic II (Grey Magic): Pagan magic.
Magic III (Gold Magic): Elven/Faerie magic.
Magic IV (Purple Magic): Elemental energy magic.
Magic V (Black Magic): Demonic magic.
Magic VI (no specific colour): Conjuring magic.
Magic VII (no specific colour): Good luck knacks.
Magic VIII (no specific colour): Malicious tricks.

Even a simple white cross icon to represent "Magic I", or a black pentagram icon to represent "Magic V" would greatly enhance the game experience. Plus, it'll probably save space on those chits and cards.


Thanks for the suggestion!
Now it would have been nice if there was colors for the last three magics... Yellow, green, pink? ...
 
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KK Su
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carthaginian wrote:

Thanks for the suggestion!
Now it would have been nice if there was colors for the last three magics... Yellow, green, pink? ...


Hmm.. allocating colours to them will imply that you need that colour magic to power those spells. Currently, to power a Magic VI spell, you can use any colour to do so (White, Grey, Gold, Purple or Black). If we had to allocate a colour to them, I'd suggest that Magic VI, VII and VIII all use the same colour, but different icons.

It's sort of like in Magic: The Gathering where you had cards that produced generic mana, or required generic mana to cast. I think that in M:tG, generic mana was represented by a grey circle and a number.

Too bad Grey is already used to represent Magic II. Or perhaps you can use a Dark Grey for Magic II and a Light Grey for Magic VI, VII and VIII?
 
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Matt Becker
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TaleSpinner wrote:

Currently, to power a Magic VI spell, you can use any colour to do so (White, Grey, Gold, Purple or Black).


This is incorrect. Each spell lists the particular color magic required to power it. In general, the Type VI spells require Purple magic, but there is one Type VI spell, World Fades, that needs Black magic.

There are two spells, the Type VII Control Bats and the Type VIII Bad Luck, that will take any color magic.

I would not associate any colors to ritual types VI, VII, and VIII because there are no colors associated to them in the game.

Also, there is not necessarily a correlation between the ritual type of a spell and the color needed to power it. A Type II Magic chit can be enchanted to Grey, but the Type II spell, Prophecy, needs Purple power. A Type V Magic chit can be enchanted to Black, but the Type V spell, Curse, needs Grey power.
 
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Chakroun Karim
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update = magic symbols :


edit : I think I'll wait a little bit for the magic colors and symbols; I'm not sure it is more readable than roman numerals, and it doesn't seem to free enough place to be worth the trade-off... I'll try to update an example when I find some more time.


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Chakroun Karim
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How about the Treasures within treasures cards? what is the function in the game of their numbers(P1-P6)?
 
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mrb88 wrote:
This is incorrect. Each spell lists the particular color magic required to power it. In general, the Type VI spells require Purple magic, but there is one Type VI spell, World Fades, that needs Black magic.


Whoops, that's what I get for posting without referring to the rulebook . My bad.

BTW, those icons look fantastic!
 
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Chakroun Karim
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TaleSpinner wrote:
mrb88 wrote:
This is incorrect. Each spell lists the particular color magic required to power it. In general, the Type VI spells require Purple magic, but there is one Type VI spell, World Fades, that needs Black magic.


Whoops, that's what I get for posting without referring to the rulebook . My bad.

BTW, those icons look fantastic!


hehe, it is an aggressive rulebook.

Thanks for the icons, I'll try to find them something to do.


All the treasure cards at a glance!

Absolutely no graphic decision of mine is close to discussion, feel free to critic.

edit : woops, one is missing...


edit2 : added corrections, Thanks Matt
 
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Matt Becker
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Black Book should contain two Type V Spells and two Type VIII Spells.

Good Book should contain two Type I Spells and two Type VII Spells.
 
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Chakroun Karim
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robo wrote:
carthaginian wrote:
Silverscythe wrote:
Wow, i really like the look of the monsters. this is how the Titan chits should look. Sharp siluettes that really show what type the monster is, i like it.


Thanks, I like the old Titan chits quite a lot!


Well, then make sure that each monster counter is different than every other one


hehe, missed that one. Yup, that's the intention; But I'll first make sure to have one of each before tweaking...
 
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J
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Very nice looking stuff.

carthaginian wrote:


Quick Boots and Elven Slippers both have a spelling error/typo: it should be "characters," not "caracters."
 
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rootbeer wrote:
Very nice looking stuff.

Quick Boots and Elven Slippers both have a spelling error/typo: it should be "characters," not "caracters."


Thanks for proofreading, I'll fix it!

updated monster chits :


still some unfinished ones and some that I'll redo, like the flying dragon, and the bat.

edit : about the colour scheme. I'm trying to keep the way I made it the first time, I'll see if it really doesn't work with the 'T' back
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Mark W
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Wow, looking great!

lol - the imp reminds me of the robot devil from Futurama.
 
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