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Subject: UG-14 Math Trade - deliver games (no shipping costs) at UG14 rss

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Jeff Michaud
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Geeklist: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/27558
(the geeklist is where you add the games you are offering)

Math Trade Deadlines:
Fri. Jan. 11th 8pm ET - for submitting games (and sweeteners)
Tues. Jan. 15th 4pm ET - for submitting want lists

Tues. Jan. 15th 5pm ET - summary of want lists posted to check for errors
Wed. Jan. 16th 3pm ET - results posted


Unity Games XIV (14) - Open Gaming Convention
Wakefield, MA (not far outside Boston)
Sat. January 26th, 2008 - 9am to Midnight
http://www.unitygames.org/ugxiii/ugxiv.htm
Only $10 until up til 2 weeks before, then $15 at at the door (space permitting)

Math Trade Rules:
1. You must be either attending UG-14 or know someone who is that will be your proxy as all game deliveries are being done at the convention (ie. no shipping costs!).

2. You can put as many games as you want up for trade, and you can even list the same game (duplicate) someone else is trading, but ... you can not duplicate your own games.

3. Feel free to add comments to individual geeklist items, but do not add general comments to the geeklist itself. Instead use this thread for discussion.

4. "sweeteners" are to be listed using either the GAMEID formatting (prefered, example Hansa) or a link to the game's page (this will look like http://www.boardgamegeek.com/game/8989). If you don't your sweeteners won't show up in the summary (I'll be using software to generate the summary automatically)

5. No limit to length of want lists (thanks to TradeMaximizer)

6. You must accurately describe your game's condition, language, edition, etc. Please list English even if it was only ever published in English as chances are someone will ask regardless.

7. You must submit a want list for each game you are offering. If you don't want to trade a specific offering (because you see no one elses game(s) you'd be happy with in exchange), submit a blank list and the game will not be traded.

8. Do NOT submit want lists until the summary has been posted.

9. I reserve the right to remove games from the list for whatever reason (this is very unlikely, but is here just in case). If you are on the bad traders list, your games will be removed.

10. By posting an entry on this list, you agree to abide both by the general math trade guidelines and by those specific to this math trade.

11. When you add item(s) please put in the comment field the hours you anticipate being at UG-14 (this may help folks who aren't there all day to leave games off their want list if they won't be there to accept delivery)

12. You may offer a max of one (1) Geekgold listing. See note.

13. You may offer a max of one (1) non-game item. See note.

Note (for 12 & 13): add these items as a game type with the game being "Outside the Scope of BGG" (gameid 23953). Please also put a "+altname+ 123 geek gold -altname-" (or similiar text for 13) at the end of your descripton (this alternative name will be used in the tool and summary).

Trade Resolver: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/TradeMaximizer
* this is new for a UG math trade. Since it finds the absolute max trades possible in seconds (at most a couple minutes) and results are relatively deterministic, there is no need to "play at home" (folks can run it at home and to verify the result as they should get exactly the same results).
* "duplicate protection" will be available
* linear priorities will also be turned on (doesn't make much difference but does make results more deterministic)

Feel free to include sweeteners (additional games you wish to bundle with the game you are adding) in the comment field (or click on "[Comment]" for the item to add after the fact).
Note: use the "[Add Item]" link to add the game you own and wish to trade away.

Jeff
______________________________________________________
important: make sure you double check the times the person who offered up each game on your want list will be at the convention, or at least be prepared to make arrangements for receiving the game (if you are lucky to "win" it in the math trade of course!).
----------------------------------------------------
Don't know what a math trade is? See http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/93555

145 trades were made in the last UG (UG-13) math trade! See http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/22435
***********************************************************

It's not a requirement, but I strongly suggest everyone in the math trade use the online want list generator/editor. Most folks prefer it as you get to see a snapshot of the entire geeklist on one page, easily keep track of your wants, and then edit your wants. And for this math trade I'll hopefully also have it setup so you can submit your wants as well, so that you have almost zero chance of a cut/paste error.

For those who haven't used it before you can check out the limited and verbose documention at:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/159648

or you could just jump right into the tool at:

http://activityclub.org/bgg/mathtrade.cgi

(a login link at the bottom will appear if you haven't used it before or the cookie was lost and you need to relogin)
 
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Jeff Michaud
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Results - 129 game lots traded!
Unusual for a math trade, all wants were submitted before the deadline (it looks like almost by about an hour before). I waited until the deadline however to concatenate all the wants together as folks were still allowed to re-submit up until the deadline if they so desired.

129 Trades Found!!!!

This is down 16 trades from the record in the UG-13 math trade but still pretty good.

The compiled wants are at:

http://activityclub.org/bgg/27558-officialwants.txt
(this is the input file to TradeMaximizer)

The raw results (shows both trade chains and by user raw summary) are at:

http://activityclub.org/bgg/27558-results-official.txt

The results summary (easier to read and with hyperlinks into BGG's trading system) can be found at:

http://activityclub.org/bgg/27558-results-summary.html

The big traders are myself and wjohnston with 8 trades each.

There shouldn't have been any cut and paste errors as everyone did use the OLWLG for both generating and submitting, though double check. I'd hold off on making the trade proposals, as well as making side trades until Wednesday 3pm ET just in case.

I'd also recommend no one make any deliveries (including geek gold) until it's clear that UG-14 won't be postponed/canceled due to weather, etc.

Thanks everyone for participating!!!!! We'll have to try for a new record (for trades found) for UG-15

Jeff

Note: neither results (raw or summary) include sweeteners (if any) for each item so make sure to look at the geeklist (the OLWLG can also be used here to look). Don't forget those when making trade proposals or when delivering at UG-14
 
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Jeff Michaud
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Reserved for wants info
I hope everyone, like for the UG-13 math trade, is able to use the online want list generator (OLWLG) again to compose and submit your wantlists. I've had the tool sync everyone's want/wish lists so you should see items color coded (highlighted):

Blue - is a game you own
Yellow - a game on your wish list
Green - a game on your want list
White or pink: none of the above

The link again to get started is:

http://activityclub.org/bgg/mathtrade.cgi

Once you've finished adding/editing and are ready to submit please follow the instructions in the tool (in step 4). You will receive an automated geekmail confirmation with the textual summary of you choices.

As mentioned, duplicate protection is now available. If you've already gone through and "added" games from step 3, when you get to step 4 and you have duplicate main items, if you click on the "Duplicate Protection" tab you will see a "Create a New Dummy Item" heading with a row for each game which it detected duplicates for. Check the ones you want a pseudo/dummy item created for and click on the Submit button.

Assuming you didn't uncheck the box to have the tool auto add the appropriate items to the new dummy items. Then when in the Table/edit format tab afterwards, items which are wanted by one of those dummy items will have a light gray background. In general you should not have any other boxes checked in that row other than the one that corresponds to the corresponding dummy item....

... instead you should check boxes in the rows for the dummy items themselves (these will have your BGG username in green after the short description).

After you've completed and submitted your wants, if you aren't sure you did the duplicate protection correctly, let me know and I'll take a peak.
 
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Jeff Michaud
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Reserved for summary
The summary is built into the online want list generator. Please see:

http://activityclub.org/bgg/mathtrade.cgi
 
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Jeff Michaud
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I gave 4 days for submitting want lists this time as some folks have had trouble getting them in by the deadline in past UG (or all) math trades in the past. Given we have almost instant results I just used the time that used to go for resolving (finding) trades to this deadline.

Wrapping this math tradeup by Jan. 16th gives over a week for folks to negotiate direct trade or sales of untraded (or other) items.

Feel free to post here if you think any of the math trade rules should be changed (including deadlines). The rules are essentially the same as the last couple UG math trades. I wouldn't mind relaxing a little the rule about no one being able to offer a duplicate of another one of their offerings (such as maybe 2 max), but I think it helps to keep things fair to those also offering the same items but who have only 1 copy.
 
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Jim Cote
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Re: UG-14 Math Trade - deliver games (no shipping costs) at
Is a "sweetener" just a game you are combining with the main entry for free?
 
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Jeff Michaud
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ekted wrote:
Is a "sweetener" just a game you are combining with the main entry for free?
Correct... they main item and the sweeteners are part of the bundle (lot) that you are offering.

For example, item #48, http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/27558/item/562693#item... the main item is the game "Attribute", and it has one sweetener, "Bang!". Both are part of that bundle/lot.

I was also asked the following question from someone else via geekmail:
Quote:
A question about duplicating games. I have a few games that I have extras of but was planning on offering them in different sets, with each set having a different head game. For example, Double or Nothing and loot and Vegas Showdown and Double and nothing. Would I be able to do that?
I answered... Double or Nothing as a sweetener I don't think would be a problem in two different lots. If you tried to offer multiple copies of Vegas Showdown, Nexus Ops, Ra, etc, then it would violate the spirit of the rule.

Hope this answers both questions. 8 more days to add items to the math trade!
 
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Reminder about describing your games
Also everyone, a reminder about rule #6:
Quote:
Quote:
6. You must accurately describe your game's condition, language, edition, etc. Please list English even if it was only ever published in English as chances are someone will ask regardless.
If you don't do this folks could rightfully assume that it's an English language edition by the US publisher (such as Rio Grande Games, Mayfair Games, Z-Man Games, etc).

Remember, this is a math trade, so if the games you deliver are not what the person receiving them expected, it's not like a direct trade that can simply be voided/aborted. Instead each trade lot is part of a chain of trades, and a break in the chain will mess things up big time.

Thanks for understanding!
 
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Jeff Michaud
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Anyone else who has already started their want lists using the OLWLG/E (online wantlist generator/editor)... the BGG XML API interface was broken by the powers that be yesterday so currently the OLWLG/E can't be used.

When it does come back up any of your selections you had already made in it should still be there. I'll post an update when the problem is resolved.
 
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Re: UG-14 Math Trade - deliver games (no shipping costs) at
Jeff, do you have a contingency plan if the OLWLG doesn't get fixed by tuesday? Should we submit the want lists the traditional way?
 
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Kaelistus wrote:
Jeff, do you have a contingency plan if the OLWLG doesn't get fixed by tuesday? Should we submit the want lists the traditional way?
I did get at least a response (http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/1985796#1985796) from the bgg admin who announced that bgg's geeklist internals had changes, but he only said (in addition to saying Aldie is a big fan of math trades) that he was "sure it will be fixed at some point"

My backup plan is that I think I can hack up something from my old scripts that used to generate summaries by data mining the individual html geeklist pages. I think I should be able to data mine at least the min. data needed (geeklist item id's, owners, game name/id, and sweeteners, but probably not the description and comments) and feed it into the tool.

Maybe if folks could at least go and give a thumbs up to http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/270578 and possibly reply to that thread, maybe Aldie will take notice and/or pity on us and fix it
 
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Ok, Aldie has fixed the bgg geeklist xml api! So the OLWLG/E tool is back! and resynced with the geeklist!
JeffyJeff wrote:
Anyone else who has already started their want lists using the OLWLG/E (online wantlist generator/editor)... the BGG XML API interface was broken by the powers that be yesterday so currently the OLWLG/E can't be used.

When it does come back up any of your selections you had already made in it should still be there. I'll post an update when the problem is resolved.
 
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With just a couple days left to add games to the math trade, I thought I'd point out some games that appear on the want and/or wishlists of the current 28 folks participating in this math trade, but which are not currently being offered.

This comes from the "statistics" page inside the OLWLG/E tool. Count is the number of folks wanting and/or wishing for each one. I've bolded ones I'm interested in myself.

Count Game
7 Brass
7 Twilight Struggle
7 Shogun
6 In the Year of the Dragon
6 Himalaya
6 Thebes
6 Through the Ages: A Story of Civilization
6 Kreta
6 Combat Commander: Europe
5 Amun-Re
5 Imperial
5 Händler, Die

5 Railroad Tycoon
5 Pandemic
5 Arkadia
5 Extrablatt
5 Crokinole
5 Galaxy Trucker
5 Khronos
4 Antiquity
4 Amyitis
4 King of Siam
4 Yspahan
4 Kaivai
4 Here I Stand
4 Diamant
4 Graenaland
4 On the Underground
4 Tahuantinsuyu
4 Tempus
4 Agricola
4 1960: The Making of the President
4 Primordial Soup
4 Pillars of the Earth 5 & 6 Player Expansion
4 Game of Thrones, A: A Clash of Kings Expansion
4 Tribune: Primus Inter Pares
4 Mississippi Queen
4 Chinatown
4 Hive
4 Mystery Rummy: Jack the Ripper
4 Masons
4 Hamburgum
........
3 City and Guilds
3 Amulett, das
3 Exxtra
3 Keythedral Expansion
2 Big Kini
 
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Re: UG-14 Math Trade - deliver games (no shipping costs) at
1 Princes of the Renaissance
1 Pueblo
1 Traumfabrik


soblue
 
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Re: UG-14 Math Trade - deliver games (no shipping costs) at
ekted wrote:
1 Princes of the Renaissance
1 Pueblo
1 Traumfabrik


soblue
Not to worry! Another copy of Pueblo coming right up!

EDIT: Drat. That's a list of wants - not posted. I thought it looked a bit odd for that.
 
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Re: UG-14 Math Trade - deliver games (no shipping costs) at
dyfrgi wrote:
Not to worry! Another copy of Pueblo coming right up!
 
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If you take it and play it, could I watch? I think the game is more fun to watch people in torment than actually playing it and being tormented.
 
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Jeff Michaud
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UG-14 Math Trade - small deadline extenstion?
One of our UG math trade regulars has requested a small extension of the deadline (until they get home from work and can add their items). Not sure what time that would be yet but...

does anyone have an objection to the deadline being extended til let's say 8pm ET or so?
 
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Re: UG-14 Math Trade - deliver games (no shipping costs) at
JeffyJeff wrote:
One of our UG math trade regulars has requested a small extension of the deadline (until they get home from work and can add their items). Not sure what time that would be yet but...

does anyone have an objection to the deadline being extended til let's say 8pm ET or so?
I'm in favor - the more the merrier! It *is* possible that there are some people who must generate their wantlists before then, though, so I suggest being sure that the tool is up to date at 3pm so that anyone who needs to can at least generate their list using what's posted by then. The games they miss out on are games they wouldn't have been able to add anyway, since they wouldn't have been posted.
 
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Hi all,

The list is closed. We had a last minute surge of submissions. Final stats are:

Users in the math trade: 46
Number of geeklist items: 382
Number of unique main game items: 328

I hope everyone, like for the UG-13 math trade, is able to use the online want list generator (OLWLG) again to compose and submit your wantlists. I've had the tool sync everyone's want/wish lists so you should see items color coded (highlighted):

Blue - is a game you own
Yellow - a game on your wish list
Green - a game on your want list
White or pink: none of the above

The link again to get started is:

http://activityclub.org/bgg/mathtrade.cgi

Once you've finished adding/editing and are ready to submit please follow the instructions in the tool (in step 4). You will receive an automated geekmail confirmation with the textual summary of you choices.

As mentioned, duplicate protection is now available. If you've already gone through and "added" games from step 3, when you get to step 4 and you have duplicate main items, if you click on the "Duplicate Protection" tab you will see a "Create a New Dummy Item" heading with a row for each game which it detected duplicates for. Check the ones you want a pseudo/dummy item created for and click on the Submit button.

Assuming you didn't uncheck the box to have the tool auto add the appropriate items to the new dummy items. Then when in the Table/edit format tab afterwards, items which are wanted by one of those dummy items will have a light gray background. In general you should not have any other boxes checked in that row other than the one that corresponds to the corresponding dummy item....

... instead you should check boxes in the rows for the dummy items themselves (these will have your BGG username in green after the short description).

After you've completed and submitted your wants, if you aren't sure you did the duplicate protection correctly, let me know and I'll take a peak.

Jeff

ps: please do NOT delete any of your geeklist items. If you no longer want to trade any of your items, simply submit a blank want lists for them (don't check any boxes in the corresponding column for it in step 4 of the OLWLG)
 
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Re: UG-14 Math Trade - deliver games (no shipping costs) at
JeffyJeff wrote:
After you've completed and submitted your wants, if you aren't sure you did the duplicate protection correctly, let me know and I'll take a peak.
I'll take you up on that. I understand the effect I am trying to create, but not how it's implemented in the system. Why not just have a check box per duplicate game saying "I only want one of these"?
 
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ekted wrote:
JeffyJeff wrote:
After you've completed and submitted your wants, if you aren't sure you did the duplicate protection correctly, let me know and I'll take a peak.
I'll take you up on that. I understand the effect I am trying to create, but not how it's implemented in the system. Why not just have a check box per duplicate game saying "I only want one of these"?
It may only be a "simple matter of programming", but it takes time to implement, usually more time to test It would have to figure out what to do if you've already added the real games to your wants (for example, what if your item1 wanted foo1 and foo2, and your item2 wanted foo2 and foo3, where foo1/2/3 are the same game?).

In any case, you have one pseudo/dummy item for "Bridges of Shangri-La"... for 0049-SHANG and 0149-SHANG. However your real items also have those two items directly wanted... they should instead be wanting your dummy item "Bos". Your 4 items that now want 0049-SHANG and 0149-SHANG should instead want just "BoS".

Though it seems strange you left off the 3rd copy of "Bridges of Shangri-La" from you wants, ie. 0009-SHANG. All 3 copies are "new in shrink".

 
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Re: UG-14 Math Trade - deliver games (no shipping costs) at
Resubmitted. That look ok?
 
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ekted wrote:
Resubmitted. That look ok?
Yup, looks good. There's no way you can receive more than one copy of BoS now.

Now to work on my own want lists
 
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UG-14 Math Trade - Duplicate protection
Hi all,

Lots of folks had asked me to double check if they used duplicate protection correctly so I just checked them all and sent geekmails to those who appear to be trying to use dup protection, but not correctly.

Looks like by the next UG math trade, if the tool is not obsolete by then, I'll make it either easier to use and/or have it at least auto-detect when it may not be being used correctly and warn the user.

Here's a suggestion for checking if you've done it correctly or not:

One way to make sure you've got it right is in step 4 before submitting look at the "Official Format" tab which is what is actually submitted. You'll see the dummy item(s) up at the top and they have a percent sign (%) prefix. The items after the colon should usually only appear there, and not in lists for any of your real (non-dummy) items... instead those real items should have listed as a want the appopriate dummy item(s).

After fixing please make sure to re-submit (via the tool again).
 
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