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Subject: Set-up player aid? rss

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Dane Peacock
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Has anyone done a step by step player aid for set up that includes the Call to Arms and Epic expansions?

We just spent an hour on set up alone.

We started with the scenario terrain, then we read the set-up section in the Epic rulebook, but then had to flip to the back for how to combine Epic with Call to Arms, which directed us back to the Call for Arms rulebook where we started reading the organized mode section, which directed us back to the impromptu mode section on a couple of issues, then eventually we were directed back to pages 8-9 of the main rulebook, but then we had to flip to the back of that book for war council and lore set-up, and on and on. It was maddening! Too many books and too many sections. I feel dizzy.



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Lee Talbert
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Im with you. The first time I tried to setup an Epic battle using Call to Arms it took way too long. Unfortunately since I dont get the chance to play as often as I would like, it probably wont be a whole lot faster the next time.
 
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brian
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I set up one on my interpretation of how it would play out. I submitted it to DOW as part of my periodic "open questions" letter. There response was they needed time to work on it but woulod publish something later.

My original post on this was on DOW's website here: http://www.daysofwonder.com/en/msg/?th=12842&start=0#msg_num...

In the meantime, this is my proposed set-up:

The revised set up should be this:
0. Select Scenario / type of game (normal; CtA = Call to Arms [Impromptu or Organized]; Epic; RA = Reluctant Allies)
0.1. Determine number of Lore master levels if applicable
1. Place the board
2. Place terrain
3. Place supplimental markers/terrain
4. Place figures (if a standard game)
4.1 Select order of battle (if playing CtA - or skip to step 4.5)
4.1.1 Deploy Scout Guard (if using Epic and CtA / N/A in RA)
4.2 Deploy Guards
4.3 Scout Ahead (N/A in RA)
4.4 Call the Reserve (N/A in RA)
4.5 Call the War Council (in normal games or impromptu CtA, go to step 5)
4.6 Call the Specialist (if playing organized CtA)
5. Pass out summary cards
6. Shuffle & Deal Command cards
6.1. Shuffle & deal Lore cards
6.2. Take Lore Token(s)
7. Read the scenario notes / set unused Command cards next to the board
7.1. Shuffle discarded Lore cards into unused Lore cards and set next to the board
7.2 Set-up Epic Command Rack (if playing Epic)
7.9. Place Landmarks for Level 3 Lore Masters
8. First player starts the game
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My latest rules summary has a setup section for Call to Arms. It might help.
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brian
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Updating based on Heroes:

The revised set up should be this:
0. Select Scenario / type of game (normal; CtA = Call to Arms [Impromptu or Organized]; Epic; RA = Reluctant Allies)
0.1. Determine number of Lore master levels if applicable
1. Place the board
2. Place terrain
3. Place supplimental markers/terrain
3.1. Place quests/treasures (if using Heroes)
4. Place figures (if a standard game)
4.1. Select order of battle (if playing CtA - or skip to step 4.5)
4.1.1. Deploy Scout Guard (if using Epic and CtA / N/A in RA)
4.2. Deploy Guards
4.3. Scout Ahead (N/A in RA)
4.4. Call the Reserve (N/A in RA)
4.5. Call the War Council (in normal games or impromptu CtA, go to step 5)
4.6. Call the Specialists (if playing organized CtA)
5. Pass out summary cards
6. Shuffle & Deal Command cards
6.1. Shuffle & deal Lore cards
6.2. Take Lore Token(s)
7. Read the scenario notes / set unused Command cards next to the board
7.1. Shuffle discarded Lore cards into unused Lore cards and set next to the board
7.2 Set-up Epic Command Rack (if playing Epic)
7.8. Place Landmarks for Level 3 Lore Masters
7.9. Place Heroes (if using heroes)
8. First player starts the game
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Dan Cavaliere
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Not sure if this thread is still subscribed to by anyone (hopefully Brian is) but I've had too much time between games lately and started 2nd guessing myself on set up.

Finding this old thread again still gets me wondering exactly when are creatures added (especially those you bring in through calling them on your War Council)?

Would it be step 7.8, 7.9, or an additional step 7.10?
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brian
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Still here but foggy brain as well.

If you are using Call to Arms, it should still be during Step 4. The cards would tell you if you are using Creatures and they should be placed in step 4.2 (or 4.4 if in the reserve). The CtA rules go on to clarify that at the time you call your War Council at step 4.5 that Creatures should have already been deployed and you need to make sure your Creature Master matches this.

According to this, it couldn't be any later than 4.4 so 7.8, 7.9, or even a 7.10 aren't correct. Placing heroes should be the last step before starting the game according to the Hero Rules. And before that, placing Landmarks was the last thing you did so technically these could both be shared as last steps (which is why I skipped the numbering to ensure these stayed at the end of Step 7)

I think the above would still apply in epic and Reluctant Allies versions as well. And as far as standard scenarios, it already calls for where to place them if present. So that should cover all modes of play I think.
 
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Thanks Brian -

so for a standard game where you have a war council that you set (say level 6), and you put a creature on that council - do you:

1 Set your war council
2 Draw cards
3 Place landmarks
4 Place creatures

OR

1 Set your war council
2 Place landmarks
3 Place creatures
4 Draw cards
 
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brian
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I would say it is:

1. Place Creatures
2. Set your War Council
3. Draw Cards
4. Place Landmarks.

An argument could be made that 1 and 2 should be switched but placing Creatures and the War Council are both "step 4" of the original set-up rules. Drawings cards is step 6 and playing the first turn is step 8. Landmarks go just before Step 8.

However, I forget the nuances of just a standard game that allows you to select your own units, that is not a standard scenario and is not call to arms. So maybe I am missing something obvious.

Unfortunately, we won't ever get an official answer from FFG or DOW at this point but we could hope for an answer from Richard.
 
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I would have to say that argument makes sense since you set your war council and decide to assign one or some of the points to a creature, then reveal your council.

I'm pretty sure I've played that way but have never found it written down anywhere and thought that was a good reason to ask here. Thanks again for your help Brian.
 
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Did some research through old log files (still can't find an official ruling but that goes for many rules of BL1E).

If you assign a creature to your War Council you place it after you have drawn command cards, drawn and chosen lore cards, and taken lore tokens.

7.8 on the list here says place landmarks. Right before that you should place any creatures you have allotted for on your War Council.

Should that be numbered as 7.7 on your list Brian?
 
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Gamer DC wrote:
Did some research through old log files (still can't find an official ruling but that goes for many rules of BL1E).

If you assign a creature to your War Council you place it after you have drawn command cards, drawn and chosen lore cards, and taken lore tokens.

7.8 on the list here says place landmarks. Right before that you should place any creatures you have allotted for on your War Council.

Should that be numbered as 7.7 on your list Brian?
I don't know that I agree with that since we have official notes of when it should happen as I have outlined above. What is the source of the material?
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The best deductions I could make were from the many games I played with Todd (who seemed to be up on the BL rules back while he was still active here and on Vassal) as well as the Creature Compendium.

Creature Compendium, pg. 1.4, section 3 - this seems to be where I get confused. You would have to set your war council first and then place the creature/lair - 'at the start of the game' (paragraph 2).

Seems this would come around the same time landmarks are placed due to setting a lvl 3 lore master. Not 100% sure but again the reason I wanted to see if I could get it clarified. Thanks.
 
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I think it is the opposite. You pick your creatures first and then during the War Council, you make sure that you have a level high enough to support that.

Again, that is what is stated in the CtA rules which is what should be applicable here.
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I think maybe I am mixing in an idea where in a non-CtA game you set your War Council without knowing how you or your opponent are going to distribute your allotted points.

For example - board and figures are set. You set your War council - you have 6pts, you secretly place 2 on your Commander, 3 on your Warrior, and 1 on the Creature.

Then you draw command cards, lore cards, and finally place your creature/lair and landmarks.

May have been playing that wrong all these years now that I see where it differs if you follow CtA but I also wonder if it is a mix up through CtA since your creature would have to be deployed after deployment cards are chosen.
 
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I think that may be why we have a hard time reconciling.

You either play a scenario as is (and a creature and/or war council is set). Or you can do some version of the Call to Arms expansion. It seems you may be playing some home brew which is not going to have an "official" answer.

Though not official, I did take a lot of time creating the above by parsing together everything we do have that is official. In the original core rules the Creature and Guest were not discussed (that I recall) so they are not treated the same as secretly setting up your War Council.

The Creature specific rules are silent on any set-up, again assuming you are only going to use them if the scenario shows them or deferring to the CtA method.

I would say in a home brew do what you want, of course. But even if you are trying to follow some semblance of what might be official, your creatures would be selected after you deploy troops and before you assign the War council. Even if done is secret, the amount needed to spend on Creatures would be public knowledge with the remaining council what is allocated and announced.

Thematically, it could be justified that your council is in their command tent and unseen. So who comes to battle is a surprise once the game is afoot. But the enemy can clearly see your array of troops and those particularly beastly ones already lined up.
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That makes sense to me Brian and since it is what we have as official I think I will add to Step 4 for my reference - Place Figures & Creatures (if a standard game).

Thanks for taking the time to reply to all this.
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Jul A
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Hello,
Thanks to all of us. But I have a little trouble to synthesize. Could you recap the whole game setup sequence? blush
Julien
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brian
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Jul - My recommendation is still this - nothing changed with this discussion except the clarification that "Creatures" are part of the "Guard" when you are deploying using CtA rules and they should be on the board before you call your War Council.

ColtsFan76 wrote:
Updating based on Heroes:

The revised set up should be this:
0. Select Scenario / type of game (normal; CtA = Call to Arms [Impromptu or Organized]; Epic; RA = Reluctant Allies)
0.1. Determine number of Lore master levels if applicable
1. Place the board
2. Place terrain
3. Place supplimental markers/terrain
3.1. Place quests/treasures (if using Heroes)
4. Place figures (if a standard game)
4.1. Select order of battle (if playing CtA - or skip to step 4.5)
4.1.1. Deploy Scout Guard (if using Epic and CtA / N/A in RA)
4.2. Deploy Guards
4.3. Scout Ahead (N/A in RA)
4.4. Call the Reserve (N/A in RA)
4.5. Call the War Council (in normal games or impromptu CtA, go to step 5)
4.6. Call the Specialists (if playing organized CtA)
5. Pass out summary cards
6. Shuffle & Deal Command cards
6.1. Shuffle & deal Lore cards
6.2. Take Lore Token(s)
7. Read the scenario notes / set unused Command cards next to the board
7.1. Shuffle discarded Lore cards into unused Lore cards and set next to the board
7.2 Set-up Epic Command Rack (if playing Epic)
7.8. Place Landmarks for Level 3 Lore Masters
7.9. Place Heroes (if using heroes)
8. First player starts the game
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