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Subject: MATH TRADES for Dummies rss

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CR Holmes
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I will just start with the basics then move up. I will attempt to make this MUCH easier to read than most others on these topics than I’ve found so far. Please send me GGMail with suggestions to make this even easier to read or understand.

MATH TRADE BASICS:

What’s a Math Trade (MT)?

The first step is to understand a Math Trade; and understand what it is.

It’s very simply put, just another way to trade a single game of yours for someone else’s game.

The only difference is a computer program (like TradeMaximizer) calculates what trades will work. Why a computer program? Because in a regular math trade there are hundreds of people, with upwards of 2000 games to go through… the program just does it faster. The program is also able to calculate the maximum possible number of trades.

Another thing unusual about a math trade is you will often be part of a “trade circle” where you are not just trading with one person. Let’s look at an example.

EXAMPLE 1
You have a game that John wants. John has a game that Mary wants. Mary has a game that you want. If all your "want lists" and "trades" match up (more on this later), the following trade can occur:

Your game goes to John, John’s game goes to Mary, and Mary’s game goes to you.

This way it creates a “trade circle”


Now with three people that’s not too difficult to calculate yourself. However if you have 300 people all participating and 2400 or so games that can be a gargantuan task to find out where all the games should go.

Now before you decide that its bad for a computer to pick the games you want that’s not fully true. You need to understand there is more to it than the computer picking randomly. After you list which games you are offering, your job in a math trade is to put in (submit) what games you would be willing to give your game up for
(This is called your “want list”).

EXAMPLE 2
For instance: Let's say you have Puerto Rico (GG#1 game, nice) but you don’t really think its that hot of a game. Instead, you would like to check out Power Grid, (GG#2 game also very good) so you would “want” to trade Puerto Rico for Power Grid. Now going back to our “trade circle” example you have Puerto Rico up for trade but, in this case we'll say, John doesn’t have Power Grid - instead, he has Tigris & Euphrates. Dang! However, John is still really looking for a copy of Puerto Rico, and is more than willing to give up his Tigris & Euphrates for it. Mary on the other hand DOES have Power Grid - right on!! Unfortunately, she already has Puerto Rico and doesn’t want a second copy. Dang, again!! . She is on the hunt for a good copy of Tigris & Euphrates instead.

Now this is where the computer comes in and sorts everything out...

You have Puerto Rico : want Power Grid
John has Tigris & Euphrates : wants Puerto Rico
Mary has Power Grid : wants Tigris & Euphrates

You, John and Mary all put your “wants” into the computer and submit them and the computer would come out with the following

You send your copy of Puerto Rico to John
You receive a copy of Power Grid from Mary

John sends a copy of Tigris & Euphrates to Mary
John receives a copy of Puerto Rico from You

Mary sends a copy of Power Grid to You
(see at the start of the trade chain, that’s who you got your copy from)
Mary receives a copy of Tigris & Euphrates from John

Look at that! Everyone got what they wanted, and got rid of something they didn’t really want. Perfect mini Math Trade(MT)

Now in actual fact, the average is that only about 20-30% of the games listed ever get traded. Just because people only “want” to trade certain items for the things they put up for trade and of course everyone else has the same situation. So in the end only some of the “wants” match up with some of the “items up for trade”.

Ok so now you have decided, "eh this is a GREAT way to try and trade UP one of my less played games for a game you would really like to play more."

"Adding an item to trade in a Math Trade (MT)"

First RULE: READ ALL THE RULES OF THE MATH TRADE BEFORE ADDING any game(s) to the MT
Second RULE: NEVER EVER EVER EVER !!! (DID I SAY THAT ENOUGH) EVER!!! DELETE AN ITEM off a MT. Instead, “Blank It” that means EDIT the item and delete the Game Number, the Name (LEAVE THE INPUT BOXES “BLANK”), and delete the Description. Instead of leaving the description blank, put in a new description to explain why you are “blanking” this item (e.g. "Added this item as a sweetener to Item 2333 instead, thanks and sorry"). Why is this soooo "important?" Because if you DELETE the actual item it screws up the computer numbering of the entire MT and you now have created piles of work not only for the moderator but also for every other trader in the trade as they may now have to go back and redo their “want lists” because the numbers have changed.

Now that I have mentioned the 2 CARDINAL RULES don’t BREAK THEM EVER thx.

The first thing you have to do to add an item to the MT is find the MT. Click on the "Game Geek Forums" tab at the top of your browser page. In the list that comes up look for the “Trades” forum and click on that. Now you should see a list of topics, near the top and “Pinned” should be a topic called "Math Trade Announcements Thread" click on that. There is where you will find the newest and greatest MTs. They will be listed from oldest to newest, so the newest trades will be on the LAST page

Once you have found the MT, at the top you will see a post similar to the following pic:



This page gives a run down of most things you can expect to see on a MT Header page.
NOTE the "ADD ITEM" link at the far bottom right of the page. THAT is how to add an item to a MT.

Click that link. Now you will see a few links as noted by the following pic



You can click on any of the 6 links to add a game. The easiest way to add a game, in my opinion, is to click the "Game" link, and that is the one I will demonstrate for you. When you click the link the following screen shows up.



I find that I don’t know the GameID’s for all my games so I regularly use the “game name search” icon. When I click on that icon this shows up:



Now in the input box, I start to type the name of the game. As I do a list of possible games starting with the letters I type appears just under the box.



I then select the game that I wish to trade.



When I click on that game, the GameID appears in the GameID input box, I then just have to close the game search window by clicking on the [x] just to the right of the "game name search input box".



The next step is to choose a picture for that entry. Just like with the game search icon I can click the image search icon. However, now I can only see pictures that are in that particular GameID picture set. I can select the picture that I want, or I can go to the next page by clicking the [>>] at the bottom right. Remember to pick the picture of the edition that you have. On many games this is not overly important, however with some like Acquire for instance with 7 or so editions, its VERY essential. Again, as with the GameID, when I’m done I click the [x] and the picture will show up in my ad.



Also the ImageID number will show up in the "ImageID input box".



Now to go to the description or "Comments" section on your screen. Keep it brief and to the point, the shorter it is the less people have to read and the more likely people will read the whole thing. It’s good to write down the edition, especially if the edition is DIFERENT than the picture shows. It’s best to put in the location the Item will ship from and what your shipping limitations will be. If you don’t put any shipping info in its ASSUMED that you will pay the ENTIRE shipping costs from you to ANYWHERE without any restrictions. (If you end up shipping overseas, that can be $$$$)



Note any really important information (like places you WON’T ship to) in bold at the very least and it's probably best to note it in a larger than normal font as well. You don’t want people to miss that kind of information, it could turn out bad when the trade ends and somewhere you won’t ship to has a game needing to get sent there.

The final step before you submit (or click "Save") your top of the line ad is to PREVIEW it. Don’t click SAVE untill you have checked out your ad for any kind of mistakes. Here you can see exactly what your MT ad will look like:



Now, of course, when you are happy with the MT ad you simply click “Save”. You have now submitted one game for trade. Now to do the rest of your 100 games .

One suggestion: Do not wait for items you want to show up in a trade list before you list your own items. You will still be making a “want list” of items in the trade you are willing to trade for, so there is no risk of trading for something you don’t want. Putting your items in the trade encourages others to do the same, and might just be the catalyst needed to get someone to post a game that you might want. Another good idea is to post an add just like this in the MTs "request list" if the MT has one. A "request list" looks, and works just like the main MT, however, it is just a list of games people in the MT want.

"Watching your Items in a MT"

On a regular basis people will want to ask questions about an item and you will need to add comments to answer those questions. But the first question may be. How do I find all my Added items in a MT without going through the entire MT page by page. Here's how:

At the top of your browser page you will see a menu bar with "My Geek" as an option, click it:



You will then see a new menu bar appear about an inch or two below it that will have "Contributions" as an option:



When you click Contributions on the right side of your page you will see a list similar to the following:



A little more than half way down that list you will see a GeekList : ??
(The ?? are the number of items you have listed in your entire history at BGG)

Click the number beside the GeekList to see all your items. BE AWARE that this list will include ALL of your items from BOTH this MT AND every other MT you have submitted items for. It ALSO includes any items that you have submitted to a MT Request List. The items are listed from your most recent to your oldest listings. Go through these items on a regular basis (at least every couple days and Definitely right at the end of the trade so people can have questions about your game answered BEFORE they have to submit want lists. If you don't answer the questions about your items it's MORE than likely that people will NOT want to trade for those items because there is one or more things that they don't know about it.

"Blanking an item in a MT"

Blanking an item is what you do if for instance you no longer have the item for trade, or if for any other reason you need to take that item off the MT. Remember, the "second rule" we all know you never, NEVER, NEVER!!! delete an item off a MT. You can "blank" the item, but do not delete the post itself.



At the bottom right of your ad you will see a link that says “Edit”. The first step you need to take to blank your ad is click on “Edit”. When you click on it you will see pretty much the same thing that you did when you initially put in the game. Now you just need to “BLANK” (make the input boxes blank) both the GameID and ImageID and delete the info in the “Comments” section. When you've done that put a reason in the “Comments” section as to why this item has been taken off the MT.



When you “Blank” the GameID it gives you a nice RED error stating "this is an Invalid ID". THAT’S OK, it’s supposed to be that way.



Again its always best to click "Preview" to make sure everything is the way you want it. Then click “Save”.

Your “Blank” ad will look something like the following:



The most important piece of information to note is the NUMBER of your listing (in this example 1708) is STILL THERE, so the rest of the numbers PAST this item have NOT CHANGED. That’s why it’s always better to "BLANK" an item rather than to just delete it. If you had deleted it, the items that were numbered higher than your listing (in this case those 1709 and up) would all go down by one. Later I will show you why that is bad for all people in the MT... even YOU

“Sweeteners”

"Sweeteners" are secondary games to make your initial games “better” or “SWEETEN” the deal. To add a sweetener you just need to add some stuff to the description, or “Comments” section of your item.
The first step in adding a sweetener, if you have already added the game, is to edit the ad. However, you can add the “Sweetener” right at the start.
When you have completed your description but before you click “Save” go back up to the "Game Name Search Icon" and click it. You will see the same Game Name Search Input box again. Type in the name of the game you are looking to add as a sweetener just as you did before when you were looking for your main game in the first place. This time however instead of the GameID input box changing when you select your game the GameID will show up in the “Comments” section like this [GAMEID=????]. This creates a link with the name of the “sweetener” to the GG page that shows the game with that GameID. Now, here’s a nice shortcut . Click preview, and click on the link that you have just created. A new tab or window (depending on your internet browser) will show up with your “sweetener” on it when the page is done loading, go through the pictures that are related to that game until you find one that is like your game, and click on that picture. Now look at the web address bar it will look something like this:



Copy down the number at the end of the address. Then go back to your original tab or window and down in your "Comments" section type [IMAGEID=????]. Where the ????s are, are put the number of the image that you got from the page you were just at. Now of course you will need to put in a description for the “sweetener” as well. You can put as many “sweeteners” to the ad as you wish. Every sweetener will increase the value of the offer. However if you make the value of the “package” too high, it is possible that no one will have a game that they feel will meet your wants



Again it’s always best to "Preview" your ad before you click save just to see what it looks like here is my example:



Now when you click “Save” your ad will show up with your "sweetener name, picture and description. In my example it was the very cool sweetener of Bang! and it's still in shrinkwrap.

“Outside the Scope of BGG (OtSBGG)”

Let's say you have some item that isn’t a “game” that you want to trade. BE AWARE that many MTs DO NOT ALLOW “Outside the Scope of BGG” REMEMBER the First RULE: READ ALL THE RULES OF THE MATH TRADE BEFORE ADDING any game(s) to the MT.

The main thing you need to know, when adding an OtSBGG item is to add an "alternate name" or "altname" to the ad. This is done by putting +altname+ Description of Item -altname- at the bottom of your item’s description, or in other words at the bottom of your “Comments” section. That lets the OLWLG (Online Want List Generator) and TradeMaximizer see the “alternate description” that you put in and that makes more sense than just a "Outside the Scope of BGG (OtSBGG)" description would. Note the GameID for all "OtSBGG" items is 23953. The picture does not have to be of your item. If you do decide to upload the pic and it gets accepted you will get a GeekGold(GG) .

Here's and Example:



In particular, note the +altname+ Dungeons and Dragons Basic Set –altname- at the bottom of the ad.

When you preview this ad it will show that +altname+ Dungeons and Dragons Basic Set –altname- at the bottom of the ad and it may not seem like it has done anything. However later on when we go to pick games you will see a BIG difference in the ease of use with that little "altname"

To complete the same thing with GeekGold(GG) do the following at the bottom as an "Alternate Name":
+Altname+ ??? Geek Gold -Altname-
Where ??? is, is where you would put the amount of GeekGold(GG) you wish to trade. For instance 50, 100 or similar.

“Miscellaneous Game Accessory”

Adding a "Miscellaneous Game Accessory" is VERY similar to adding a "OtSBGG" but game accessories are generally allowed in MTs more often. (Again, remember the "First Rule:"Read all the rules of the specific math trade you are looking at.)"Miscellaneous Game Accessory" usually encompasses things such as dice or game parts that will be replacements to parts you may have lost or that may have worn out. It may also include games that are missing pieces as those games can be used to make another game complete. You would lay out the +altname+ exactly the same way as you would for an "OtSBGG".

“Want Lists”

Once, you have finally put in all your 100 games. (or how ever many you wish) You will need to put down what you “want” for those items. Remember, you can start (AND THIS IS HIGHLY SUGGESTED) to put down your wants while the MT is still open for submissions. (REMEMBER THE "DON’T DELETE" RULE? THIS IS WHY IT’S SOOOOO IMPORTANT). As the math trade goes on, drop in once a day and write down the numbers of the items that you want, and what you would be willing to trade for those items.

Of course you can wait until the end of the trade, and for some folks this may be easier, but it could potentially be a very long session sitting in front of your computer making trade decisions, so plan your schedule accordingly if you choose to wait until the end.

So, from the examples above, if you want Puerto Rico you would put down item #1708 Puerto Rico and if you would be willing to trade your item at item #530 Ra for it put those two together. Now what would happen if someone with an item at #500 deleted his/her item you now have to go back and go over your want lists again because BOTH your numbers have changed. That takes time and with only a couple days at the end of a MT to sort out all your wants and get them in, having to go over all your trades is time that you may not and others definitely may not have. Be kind to all the traders and NEVER delete items.

At the end of the MT the moderator will put out an “Official Names List” for all the items on the MT. This “Official Names List” is what you will use to input your wants. Most people use the OLWLG (Online Want List Generator), made by JeffyJeff, to submit their want lists.

Before I go through that I’m going to go through how “want lists” work so you know what’s happening behind Jeffy’s tool. The “Official Names List” will look similar to these if you are using the tools listed above.

0018-BOBLEE ==> "Bobby Lee" (from Toonie)
0019-WOW ==> "Way Out West" (from crp_rulz)
0020-SWORD ==> "Samurai Swords" (from Jones1)
0021-WOP ==> "Web of Power" (from Babelicious)
0022-AXISA ==> "Axis and Allies" (from Jones1)
0023-FRECHO ==> "Free Choice" (from Maxter)
0024-AXISA ==> "Axis and Allies" (from Babelicious)
0025-MERCA ==> "Mercanauts" (from Wolfs)
0026-TANNH ==> "Tannhäuser" (from Jones1)
0027-AXISA ==> "Axis and Allies" (from Stuperman)
0028-BYLOW ==> "Buy Low Sell High" (from crp_rulz)

BE AWARE THAT GAMES THAT ARE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT CAN COME UP WITH EXACTLY THE SAME SHORT NAMES IE:
Samurai and
Samurai would both have short names as follows,
0100-SAMUR ==> "Samurai"
1530-SAMUR ==> "Samurai"
but as you can see they are definitely DIFFERENT GAMES

To submit a “want list” the computer program needs a few things and it will need those things in a VERY defined order and layout. The first piece of information it will need is who owns the game. That is, what is the GameGeek Personal ID for the person who owns the Game, e.g. for me my ID is (crp_rulz) including the brackets. The next piece of information that the program will need is what game is being traded. Taking from the example just above, I’ll use 0019-WOW and 0028-BYLOW. Sometimes there will be leading zeros as noted in this example and sometimes there will be trailing dashes – you MUST include these in the want list or the computer will not recognize it and your want list will be sent back by the moderator (they have way too much to do to correct your typing errors [yet another reason to use the OLWLG]). Now the next thing the computer looks for is a COLON : <- LIKE THAT if you don’t have it the moderator will send back your list . The final thing the computer looks for is what you are willing to trade for that game, and in what order. Let’s say I want to trade my Way out West, or my Buy Low Sell High for Axis and Allies, but I want Bobby Lee even more and I would take Web of Power if I couldn’t get either of those but I don’t want any of the others at all. My want list would look as follows

(crp_rulz) 0019-WOW : 0018-BOBLEE 0022-AXISA 0021-WOP
(crp_rulz) 0028-BYLOW : 0018-BOBLEE 0022-AXISA 0021-WOP

Now as you see above though there are many different Axis & Allies games and I should put them all in (especially the one from Stuperman, since it’s got a “sweetener”.) So my new list should look like this

(crp_rulz) 0019-WOW : 0018-BOBLEE 0027-AXISA 0022-AXISA 0024-AXISA 0021-WOP
(crp_rulz) 0028-BYLOW : 0018-BOBLEE 0027-AXISA 0022-AXISA 0024-AXISA 0021-WOP

Note YOU CAN have a “blank” want list e.g. you don’t see anything in the MT that you would be willing to trade your gem for so your "want list" for that item would be empty. For example:

(crp_rulz) 0019-WOW :

Note that in this case, there is nothing past the colon.

“Duplicate Protection”

Up to this point I haven’t looked at the possibility of getting more than one of the same item. Now I will start to look at “DUPLICATE PROTECTION”, How do I stop from getting 10 of every game .

The way I’ve made my lists above, I am saying that I’m willing to trade both my games for copies of Axis & Allies, and if both of them trade I will get 2 copies of Axis & Allies, now I like Axis & Allies, but I don’t like it that much lol.

The way to prevent duplicates is to make a single entry in your want lists for every copy of the item that you don’t want duplicates of. To do that you make a “Group Entry” that puts all the games you don’t want duplicates of into a single group then you put that “group” into your want list. A group list is denoted by the character % then you give the list your own name for my example I’m making my Axis & Allies group name "AANDA" I then put all the Axis & Allies copies that I want in a list just like they would appear in my want list STILL IN THE SAME ORDER my order of want from greatest want on the left to least want on the right. So my “Group Entry” would look like this:

(crp_rulz) %AANDA : 0027-AXISA 0022-AXISA 0024-AXISA

I now have to put that group into every one of my want lists:

(crp_rulz) 0019-WOW : 0018-BOBLEE %AANDA 0027-AXISA 0022-AXISA 0024-AXISA 0021-WOP
(crp_rulz) 0028- BYLOW : 0018-BOBLEE %AANDA 0027-AXISA 0022-AXISA 0024-AXISA 0021-WOP

HERE IS WHERE, MOST DUPLICATE PROTECTION MISTAKES, APPEAR. I have made a list of items that I don’t want duplicates for and I have put that “Group Entry” in each of my lists BUT the original WANTS ARE STILL THERE. I must remove those wants, for each item I've created a "group entry" for, because with the “group entry” they are already all there, everywhere you see %AANDA in my example its like seeing all the items in that group (0027-AXISA 0022-AXISA 0024-AXISA) everywhere I ahve listed %AANDA. If I don't remove those items, Ill have 2 entries for each of my Axis & Allies which actually BREAKS the duplicate protection. Once I REMOVE all the entries in EACH want list that are the same as ANY entry in any of my GROUP ENTRIES so my new want lists should look as follows.

(crp_rulz) %AANDA : 0027-AXISA 0022-AXISA 0024-AXISA

(crp_rulz) 0019-WOW : 0018-BOBLEE %AANDA 0021-WOP
(crp_rulz) 0028- BYLOW : 0018-BOBLEE %AANDA 0021-WOP

Essentially %AANDA (is a computer array of, or more simply just equal to) 0027-AXISA 0022-AXISA 0024-AXISA
That’s what a “Group Entry” does

The second most common mistake when it comes to Duplicate Protection is making the “Group Entry” but never putting that “Group Entry” into your want lists (this is more likely when using the OLWLG by Jeffy because its only one checkmark and if you don’t see it you will miss the whole Entry. The want lists with this MISTAKE look like the following

(crp_rulz) %AANDA : 0027-AXISA 0022-AXISA 0024-AXISA

(crp_rulz) 0019-WOW : 0018-BOBLEE 0027-AXISA 0022-AXISA 0024-AXISA 0021-WOP
(crp_rulz) 0028- BYLOW : 0018-BOBLEE 0027-AXISA 0022-AXISA 0024-AXISA 0021-WOP

As you can see the “Group Entry” was made correctly but its not actually in the “Want List” and again there is a good chance I will get two copies of A&A. An even worse case scenario is where I have done everything right but didn’t put my “Group Entry” into my want lists. Then I will have a list like the following:

(crp_rulz) %AANDA : 0027-AXISA 0022-AXISA 0024-AXISA

(crp_rulz) 0019-WOW : 0018-BOBLEE 0021-WOP
(crp_rulz) 0028- BYLOW : 0018-BOBLEE 0021-WOP

Now I have made my “Group Entry” correctly and I have removed all the possible duplicates. BUT I never put my “Group Entry” Into my want lists so now I WON’T GET ANY A&A games and it’s my second highest want. Not good . Again this is more likely when using the OLWLG as its only one check mark, and if you miss that check mark you miss the entire list.
There are many more tricks you can accomplish if you manually input your want list. The biggest problem and a VERY common one is typos. For instance, you put 0012-WOP instead of 0021-WOP and your list gets mailed back to you. Now with 2 games finding that error should be pretty easy … but when there are 1000+games and you have 50 games of your own with 50 wants and your "want lists" start to look like the following for each game:

(MyPain) 0001-CARTA : 0529-ANLS2D 1302-ANIS1G 2120-OTSOB 1818-SWTQG 1977-SWTQG 1647-EPICD 2081-EPICD 0199-AOEAD 0064-MEM44 2207-BATTL 1178-IMPER 1740-AN5GCAB 1761-AN5AB 1767-AN5GCTYCO 2327-AN5GCABOTOA 2380-ANT5BAB 0937-PITCH 1663-DJITD 0447-WOWTB 1125-AOEAD 1128-AOEAD 1129-AOEAD 1249-AOEAD 1126-STBG 1493-STBG 2042-WOWFA 2170-AOEAD 0903-STBG 0610-AOEAD 1288-RRTYC 0894-TOI 1123-TOI 1995-TOI 2041-TOI 0781-RRTYC 1704-TTRNC 1776-RRTYC 0906-NOSTR 1247-NOSTR 0489-QUEEN 1819-QUEEN 0915-WRING 1759-WRING %batstat 0904-TI3E 0774-AGRIC 2377-ZOOLO %BetrHoH 1822-SOC 1157-BATTL 1127-TI3E 0849-SOC 1174-TI3E 0127-TI3E 2169-RAVEN 2121-OTSOB 2197-YSPAH 2349-COMMC 2277-1TMOTP 1871-UNION 0487-UNION 0600-UNION 0662-UNION 2173-BATTL 0887-BATTL 1124-SHOGU 1130-SHOGU 1131-SHOGU 1870-BCITY 0522-FURYD 1143-FURYD 2270-FURYD 0558-BCITY 1953-POMPE 1187-HAMST 0314-SHOGU 1674-SHOGU 0331-GALTRU 0495-GALTRU 2140-YINSH 1862-SPACE 1230-BTCRY 0145-CATAN 1635-SPACE 1749-LIFEB 1306-BTCRY 1005-LOSTC 2010-BTCRY 0908-CONTA 0449-COMMC 0626-POMPE 0634-PGRID 0040-COMMC 0462-WALDS 1809-RRTYC 0718-DUNE- 1943-DUNE- 2138-DUNE- 0452-HANNI 0648-HANNI 1075-REEFE 0374-ELGRA 0899-ELGRA 0470-FORMU 0697-DUNE- 1826-FACFUN 0660-PRISOU 1882-ARBOS 0508-MOAI 0759-CUBA 1409-CUBA 0328-PILLA 0907-CUBA 0366-WTD 1700-CUBA 1611-PRINC 0633-NOSTR 0196-TTRME 0424-TTRME 0336-BMOON %1960TMP 1383-DUELD 1760-DUELD 2241-DUELD 2116-CARCC 0799-SWORD 1023-CONQU 1051-M4AP 2172-M4AP %Buffy 0842-GOA-- 2034-MEXICA 1710-THEBE 2196-THEBE 0041-THEBE %MarvelH %antike %arkhor 1764-AN4GCTYCO 1653-ANSTTNGS1DBS 0766-PILLA 1654-ANSTTNGS2DBS 0039-FAMIL 1656-ANSTTNGS3DBS 1177-TE 1252-AN3TGC 1718-TWIST 1045-RTURN 2058-RTURN 0056-TCTK 1541-HISTW %Tigris 0520-AMUNRE 0595-FRESH 0319-ATTIK 1115-THRON 1748-CNG 0411-THRON 1538-ZOOLO 0848-YS--- 1264-YS--- 1141-CNG 0651-CARCC 0499-WOP 1741-SWORD 0690-QUEEN 0905-SHEAR 0435-ZOOLO 2231-CNG 2352-LEODV 1641-FORMU 0885-LEODV 1952-FRIED 0853-NOTRE 0900-ITYOTD 1950-ITYOTD 1392-YS--- 1201-FORMU 1880-WOP 1855-AN2GC 1858-AN2GC 2061-OTSOB 2279-AN2GC 2288-ANT2BAB 2316-AN3GCTOR %MissRed 1466-TORRE 1224-ANSPMFW 0614-THURN 0417-ANCOD3ADWG 1313-ANCMFW 1843-AN2BABGC %blumoon 0389-MRJAC 1434-MRJAC 1572-STARF 1624-ANMUAFTW 0980-GEMBLO 1697-STONE 2000-CAMER 2309-AN2POGG 1898-CITTA 1777-TAJMAH 2132-TAJMAH 1336-STONE 0803-CITTA 1248-NOTRE 1529-VILLA 1014-RAZZIA 2083-MPBII 0082-YSPAH 0275-MPBII 1817-DOOMB 2060-OTSOB 2059-RFTG

Finding that one error may be a little difficult. This is where the OLWLG becomes a VERY nice tool. By the way, this is an actual "Want List” for just a single game from a member from the Cabin Fever MT. They DO get this big lol.

Remember that the moderator of the MT is not responsible for fixing your broken want list. If you have incorrect information, cut and paste errors or typos, your list may very well be sent back to you to fix. If you don’t fix it in time, most moderators will simply assume a blank list for each of your items.

For how to use Duplicate Protection WHILE using the OLWLG please scan through OLWLG for the Duplicate Protection Section

"OLWLG (OnLine Want List Generator) (by JeffyJeff)"

The OLWLG is presently the most commonly used "Want List" generation tool. Some MTs are even requiring that you MUST submit your want lists through this tool, as it can make it easier for the moderator. The first step in using this tool is registering for it. You can do that at http://activityclub.org/bgg/bgglogin.cgi. After you register you will be sent a GGMail with an exact login which will look something like http://activityclub.org/bgg/bgglogin.cgi?c=1234567890-123456... (That is Step 1) when you logon you will see something like this:
(Step 2)



It lists all the current and past MTs that are using, or have used the tool. To go to one just click on the link of the MT that you are in to begin to use this tool.

That will bring you to (step 3)



Here you see a list of the games that are in the current MT.
Note that the tool is updated manually by Jeff when he has time, so it’s possible that there are games in the trade list that have not yet shown up in the tool. If this is the case, you can still enter information for the games you want, but you should check back later to see if the tool has been updated.
Of course if you have just added your offers to the list, they probably will not show up in the tool yet, so you may have to wait before you can go through and create the "want lists" you want to associate your games with.
When you first open step three the games are just in the order that they were input. At the top just inside the chart you will see 4 Links Game (trading, wanting, wishlist) when you click on those 4 links the list will resort to one of the following four orders.
Game – Resorts the list by Alphabetical Game Name
Trading – Resorts the list by the games you are trading
Wanting – Resorts the list by the games listed on your profile’s want list
Wishlist – Resorts the list by the games listed on your profile’s wishlist
Please note this resorting can take 1-2 MINUTES on a slower computer (I have a 3600+ and it was taking me 30 or so seconds to resort.)



The games you own (whether you have them up for trade or not) and all other games with the same name show up with a Blue Background, where the games that are on your want list show up with a Green Background, while those that are on your wish list, show up with a Yellow Background. If you have games that are on both your wish list and want list the default background colour is Green. Sweeteners show up with a Pink Background.
Items with an Add button
can be added to your wants. Where items with a
have already been added to your want lists. When you click on a
it will bring you to that item’s listing in the MT. I will start with adding a game to your want list. When you click the “Add” button, a new window appears with all the games that you have available for trade in it.



From this list you can select (in this case) what games you would be willing to trade for the game “Conquest of Pangea”. You select each game that you wish to trade by checking the boxes. At the bottom is an “Optional Value” box. It’s ALWAYS best to fill this with SOME sort of number. This number is a direct relation to how much you want the game, with relation to other games on your "Want List". The higher the number the more you want the game and the higher on your “Want List” that it shows up.

Remember the example of my want list way back when:

(crp_rulz) 0019-WOW : 0018-BOBLEE 0022-AXISA 0021-WOP

In this case I could input 500 for 0018-BOBLEE, 300 for 0022-AXISA, and 100 for 0021-WOP that would then line up the want lists as I would like them to be. When your done click “Save”.

Note that since these values are only in relation to each other, listing 500, 300, 100 would be the same as listing 5,3,1. However, I found that leaving big gaps allows you to put more games in between the numbers you already have there.

What’s important is that 0018-BOBLEE is the one I want most, so has the highest number, 0022-AXISA is the one I want next, so it has the middle number, and 0021-WOP I only want if I can’t get one of the other two, so it gets the lowest number.

Many math trades use a linear priority, so if I leave off the numbers in the tool, it will assume the first item I have listed as a want for my trade is the most important, and the second items is less important, and so on.

After you have done that step for every game you have decided to trade, its time to move onto steps 4&5 in the OLWLG. To do so you click the “Click here to edit your wants” link at the bottom or top of the page.



The initial format you see is the Table (edit format).
In the table across the top are your games along the left side are all the games and/or items in the MT you can click on the links to go to those items. You can also see your current rank of each game. THIS TABLE CAN TAKE A BIT TO LOAD – DON’T START EDITING UNTIL YOU SEE THE TWO BUTTONS AT THE BOTTOM (Confirm Changes and Reset Changes) OR YOU WILL HAVE TO RELOAD THE PAGE. Go down the left side of the page find the items that you want and go across the row to select or check what games you are willing to trade for those items. Most of this was already completed in step 3 this is more of a check and reorder to make sure the order of the games you want is from top down on this page meaning the games you want the most are at the top of the list on the left and the games you want the least are at the bottom of the left side. During this step you are NOT concerned with duplicates so just pick all the games you want. When you are done remember to click the “Confirm Changes” button to save all the work you just did.

The next step is “Duplicate Protection”. When you click on this box you will get a new screen like below. The easy way to make “Duplicate Protection” is to use the built in “Create Dummies the Easy Way” this is essentially an Auto-Create of a “Group Entry” which we discussed earlier.



If you check the “Create?” for each item that you want duplicate protection for it will automatically make a group entry with the Short Identifier listed (if you wish you can change the short identifier to one that you would understand or recognize better). For instance in the case above if I were to create these two entries it would create 2 “Group Entries” one named BluMoo and the other SoC, in this case at this time I don’t know right off the bat what the 2 Matching Items from my Want lists are, I just know that there are 2 things that would be in each of these 2 lists.

%BluMoo : ????-BLUMOO ????-BLUMOO
%SoC : ????-SOC ????-SOC



When you click the submit button your Group Entries should show up at or near the bottom of the list with a Light Green highlight so that they stands out. The Items that still have duplicate games listed will show up in a Red highlight to warn you that you have not removed the duplicates yet. Also you will see the big Red “Warning! Duplicate Protection” message at the bottom of the page. If you submit your lists with this warning your duplicate protection WON’T WORK!!! Fix it before you submit your lists OR you may have the unfortunate situation of getting more than one of the games that you’ve set up duplicate protection for.



I put the same number in the new green “Group Entry” or “Dummy List” as the rest of the same games that that Entry represents so that it shows up next to those entries as above I put 499 into the green entry just like 499 was in the other 3 entries. Now to make sure I remove the duplicates. Remember my example from before? When I had not yet removed the duplicate items?

(crp_rulz) %AANDA :

(crp_rulz) 0019-WOW : 0018-BOBLEE %AANDA 0027-AXISA 0022-AXISA 0024-AXISA 0021-WOP

This is what you have right now… so you have to remove all the extra entries, and you actually have to fill the “Group Entry” with something. In the OLWLG all you have to do to do that is uncheck all the checks in the Red lines and put in the same check marks in the green line or the “Group Entry”. The first step that I suggest is fill the “Group Entry”. I feel it’s easiest because you can see where your present check marks are so all you have to do is copy them.



Now, in the table, what you have is the equivalent of:

(crp_rulz) %AANDA : 0027-AXISA 0022-AXISA 0024-AXISA

(crp_rulz) 0019-WOW : 0018-BOBLEE %AANDA 0027-AXISA 0022-AXISA 0024-AXISA 0021-WOP

You still don’t have duplicate protection yet. You have to remove all the extra entries that are now in the “Group Entry”. In OLWLG all you need to do now is uncheck all the checkmarks under the BLACK lettering in the Red row, as seen below.



DON’T UNCHECK THE CHECKMARK UNDER THE GREEN LETTERING.



That is the %AANDA in your "want list". If you take it out and you loose ALL chances of those games, if you uncheck that then the end result is as follows.

(crp_rulz) %AANDA : 0027-AXISA 0022-AXISA 0024-AXISA

(crp_rulz) 0019-WOW : 0018-BOBLEE 0021-WOP
(crp_rulz) 0028- BYLOW : 0018-BOBLEE 0021-WOP

Once you have removed the check marks in the red row under the black letters, you are done this step. Click the “Confirm Changes” You will know that you have completed this step properly when you see the Red rows turn Grey and have only one check mark in them and the Green row will have lots of checkmarks in it, also the big Red “Warning! Duplicate Protection” at the bottom of the screen will disappear.



If the trade list is still open for submissions, you should probably check back before the end of the trade, to ensure that everything still looks good (remember if someone broke the Second Rule and deleted an item the numbers may have changed). It’s also good to check and see if any more games you want have been added at the last minute.

You should also review your items in "Summary Format". It’s a very user-friendly way to make sure that everything you are submitting as a want list is what you actually want. Once the trade is closed for submissions, the moderator the “official format” for want lists will be added to the tool. When this happens, you can click to see your want list in the actual format that it will be submitted.

When this step is done the only thing that you will need to do is "Submit Your List". After the submissions close, the tool will then have a link to How to Submit Your Lists. It won't appear while items can still be added to the trade list. You can start building your want list now, but the tool won't allow you to submit it until submissions close. Click that area to send your want lists to the moderator. You will receive a confirmation email when your list has been submitted properly. Now is just the wait.



"TradeMaximizer (by cokasaki)"

At the Very end of the MT a list will be provided by the moderator from the program used like TradeMaximizer it will look something like this.

TradeMaximizer Version 1.2c (8 September 2007)
Options: ALLOW-DUMMIES LINEAR-PRIORITIES REQUIRE-COLONS REQUIRE-USERNAMES HIDE-NONTRADES

TRADE LOOPS (994 total trades):

(ALEXBROWN) 0350-TIMBU receives (INDIANAJOHN) 0079-OOTSAGTDOD
(INDIANAJOHN) 0079-OOTSAGTDOD receives (LARRYJRICE) 1506-FORMU
(LARRYJRICE) 1506-FORMU receives (SOS1) 1383-DUELD
(SOS1) 1383-DUELD receives (JTAKAGI) 0494-ELASU
(JTAKAGI) 0494-ELASU receives (TGBRUISER) 1970-ZAVAN
(TGBRUISER) 1970-ZAVAN receives (JTAKAGI) 0480-AIRLI

ITEM SUMMARY (994 total trades):

(ABSENT HANDED) 1754-TIE receives (GARRY_RICE) 1086-ACQUI and sends to (EVILTIMMY) 0782-BMC
(ABSENT HANDED) 1757-PIZZA receives (MANHATTANDOCTOR) 0578-A2E and sends to (BDMILLER) 1789-MDART
(ABSENT HANDED) 1758-PACVIC receives (ROOTBEER) 1889-STACT and sends to (GREGD) 2372-WARKNI
(ABSENT HANDED) 1774-QWIRK receives (ARTFULDODGE2) 1459-ACQUI and sends to (SOS1) 0681-KEYHAR
(ACETATE3) 1374-STEROC receives (HOMIEFUD) 1218-MORDR and sends to (PDCLOSE) 0603-AN5O6GB
(ADIAMANT) 2146-GBOC receives (CBRUA) 1029-ARKAD and sends to (MERKLES BONER) 0498-CATAN


To read this you need to go through the “Item Summary” section, looking for your name on the far left side. You then go from left to right; for instance in this case:

ABSENT_HANDED is receiving 1086-ACQUI from GARRY_RICE
and
EVILTIMMY is receiving 1754-TIE from ABSENT_HANDED,

to complete the circle (This information was researched by looking through the remainder of the summary that is not visible here)
SRONEY is receiving 0782-BMC from EVILTIMMY
GPREN is receiving 0695-ARENA from SRONEY
ICEMANCU is receiving 2213-HTHYW from GPREN
ROKKR is receiving 1514-COSEN from ICEMANCU
And finally
GARRY_RICE is receiving 2419-ROADS from ROKKR

As you can see trade circles in MT’s can end up being quite big. This one had 7 people involved.

“Completing the Trades”

The last book keeping step in a MT is “completing the trades”. To do so put the item on your profile and put the games up for trade. Then propose a trade with whoever you are supposed to send it to. The odd things about these trades are that one side of many trades will be “BLANK”. For instance in the trade above GARRY_RICE would propose a trade with ABSENT_HANDED and the trade would be as seen below

BoardGameGeek Trade Proposal

The user 'Garry_Rice' is proposing a game trade with the following details:

Game(s) From Garry_Rice
-----------------------
1. Acquire

Game(s) From Absent_Handed
-----------------------



MATH TRADE


As you can see above there are NO games on the Absent_Handed side of the trade because Absent_Handed is actually giving the game for this circle to EvilTimmy

For items that are OtSBGG. First, you need to mark the Ouside the Scope of BGG (OtSBGG) item as "For Trade" (You don't need to mark it as owned). Then, you select the OtSBGG item as what you are offering to trade. In the comments, include a description what you are offering (eg. if giving Geek Gold put "50 Geek Gold for Koolest Math Trade Ever" in the comments). If you are giving GeekGold, once the trade is accepted, go to the "GeekStuff" tab of the user's profile you are sending the Geek Gold to, and select "Give User GeekGold."

Of course the VERY final step in a MT is to send the games you're supposed to send off quickly and well packed.

Those are all the MATH TRADE BASICS, If anyone has any suggestions as to more Items that should be in this and descriptions LET ME KNOW GGMail crp_rulz. Thx

"More References"

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/TradeMaximizer

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/159648

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/game/3076

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/Math+Trades

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/Math_Trades

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/93555

FOR POSTAL INFORMATION HERE ARE SOME LINKS

http://www.canadapost.ca/personal/tools/calcrate-e.asp

http://postcalc.usps.gov/

(This one is a form that you need for international parcels from USA [Thx Bobby4th])
http://www.usps.com/international/customs.htm

http://www.dhl.com/

http://www.ups.com/

http://www.fedex.com/

http://www.purolator.com/

http://www.canpar.com/shipping/index.shtml

http://www.motopak.ca/

http://www.parcel2go.com/


PLEASE GGMAIL SUGGESTIONS AND CORRECTIONS TO CRP_RULZ THX

SPECIAL THANKS TO tmib http://www.boardgamegeek.com/user/tmib FOR THE GREAT AMOUNT OF EDITING SHE DID TO ASSIST THE READABILITY OF THIS POST.
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VETRHUS of Rogaland
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THERE IS JUST ONE MORE THING!

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/2053159#2053159

(Moved to re-locate the ensuing dialogue.)
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Steve Bachman
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diehard4life wrote:
POSITIVE ought to be the starting point which all trade feedback begins with, unless something proves to be less than positive.

It should be noted that this statement is YOUR opinion and many people, myself included, disagree with this. A guide to Math Trades shouldn't include debate, but if you are going to throw in divisive opinions like this, it will lead to it.
 
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VETRHUS of Rogaland
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Well maybe you are capable of adequately explaining what neutral constitutes in a post which accompanies the feedback. But most aren't.

It shouldn't be divisive. There should be no way to give feedback at all for the null side of the Math Trade.

The last time this was discussed, it was clear that many people view 'neutral' feedback as a harmful thing, or as negative-lite.

Therefore, wouldn't it be a logical extension that one must consider that in posting it? What is divisive about considering other traders reputation at all costs?

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Steve Bachman
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Because many people perceive "neutral" to mean "negative" does not change the reality of what "neutral" means, and those who feel that unwarranted "positives" convey a message that they do not feel comfortable with should not feel compelled to do so.

You started up the same argument in a separate thread - why drag a debate into a thread intended to be an objective guide?

And yes, you are correct in that there should be no way to give feedback for simply receiving a game in a 1-way trade but the system was not set up for that. There is a way to leave null feedback for a null trade, and I'd rather see that be put forth as the official protocol than either "positive" or "neutral".
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I think it is fine for people to choose "Neutral" for the non-shipping side of the Math Trade-- but ONLY if they state that this is their policy in the Math Trade item listing in the original trade geeklist. I want to know if you do this in advance and I'll choose to not trade with you, thanks.
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Anything other than positive implies that there was something less than satisfactory about the transaction. People who have done nothing wrong don't deserve to get dinged like that.
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Steve Bachman
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Maybe neutrals imply less than satisfactory to you, but not everyone is you. Just like neutrals don't imply anything less than satisfactory to me but not everyone is me. That's why traders should be allowed to leave the feedback that they are comfortable with and not be forced to leave neutrals or positives.

Applying the eBay model (where neutrals are considered non-positive and actually count against you) to BGG is inappropriate as the BGG feedback system does not count the neutrals for or against you - they are simply neutral. I tend to ignore them and just keep an eye out for the negatives and the new traders.
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VETRHUS of Rogaland
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Ward wrote:
Because many people perceive "neutral" to mean "negative" does not change the reality of what "neutral" means, and those who feel that unwarranted "positives" convey a message that they do not feel comfortable with should not feel compelled to do so.


That thought really makes me desperately sad.

The negative consequences of your actions (based merely upon subjective belief) is more important than doing harm to another user.

I refuse to believe that you really mean what you've written as stated. This is why the written word (and feedback, naturally) is often sorely inadequate to convey meaning.

We ought to do everything we can to treat each other with great care and respect. I apologize if by bringing this up I am harming either of those aspirations--because that would be antithetical and hypocritical.

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Ward wrote:
Maybe neutrals imply less than satisfactory to you, but not everyone is you.

Knowing that others (and probably many others), would look upon that as a negative implication when looking at someone else's rating, even if you meant no such thing, would it hurt to not damage the reputation of that person in the eyes of those people?

Usually I'll leave a positive, but note that this was just a math trade recipient that I received nothing from in return.
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Richard Pardoe
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crp_rulz wrote:
The Games you are trading and all other games with the same name show up with a Blue Background, where the games that are on your wishlist show up with a Green Background[


Actually...

Blue Background is games you already own.
Green Background[ is games on your want list
Yellow Background is games on your wish list.
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Tracy Lauricella
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Heh, we were working on things at the same time. I just sat down and did a big edit of your post, fixing some grammar, run on sentences, and typographical stuff, but not really changing your content much.

I can mail you the edits in Microsoft Word doc format so you can see the edits called out explicitly, or you can just see the full thing here and compare to what you have:

http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=df32v9q4_0gfmj7zvq


It appears that you've already incorporated many of these edits, probably as you just updated your last revision.

This post should probably be made into a wiki entry asap, so that folks can make appropriate edits and fixes.

Great job by the way!

--TMIB
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Will there be a quiz on this?
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RPardoe wrote:
crp_rulz wrote:
The Games you are trading and all other games with the same name show up with a Blue Background, where the games that are on your wishlist show up with a Green Background[


Actually...

Blue Background is games you already own.
Green Background[ is games on your want list
Yellow Background is games on your wish list.


hmm well that can't be exactly right because many of the items in the Cabin Fever MT were on my "wish list" and NONE of them showed up in a Yellow Background I'll have to check to see if the other two statements hold water either not fully sure because most of my games that I owned were also on the trade

***EDIT yes the Blue is Items that you own and not necessarily ones that you have up for trade. I will adjust the info. Green seemed to equal both anything that was on my wanted and or wish lists. ***
 
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Richard Pardoe
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When did you add items to your wish list? If you added them to your wish list after you entered your items on the geeklist, Jeff's tool won't be updated. It generally brings in your collection stats when it first sees you enter the Math Trade.

(In my case - I had participated in prior math trades, so it had cached collection stats for me that were out of date as well. Games that were on my wish list, but were in fact owned.) I did discuss with Jeff having my collection stats reimported to have my stats up to date.

But from my collection and discussions w/ Jeff - the coloring I have listed is the correct one. Any differences are due to when Jeff imported the collection stats and when you changed the stats of your collection.
 
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Stephen Roney
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ANd if games are on BOTH lists, the Green will apply. For me, the only things on my wishlist that are not on my want list are pre-releases, so I don't get any yellow, either.
 
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CR Holmes
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RPardoe wrote:
When did you add items to your wish list? If you added them to your wish list after you entered your items on the geeklist, Jeff's tool won't be updated. It generally brings in your collection stats when it first sees you enter the Math Trade.


Well before the math trade started, like 12 months


RPardoe wrote:
(In my case - I had participated in prior math trades, so it had cached collection stats for me that were out of date as well. Games that were on my wish list, but were in fact owned.) I did discuss with Jeff having my collection stats reimported to have my stats up to date.

But from my collection and discussions w/ Jeff - the coloring I have listed is the correct one. Any differences are due to when Jeff imported the collection stats and when you changed the stats of your collection.


hmm odd that mine didn't show up that way then :/

Thx
CR

(ps I have asked Jeff to comment on this thread, when he does he'll prob note that error too )

***EDIT

sroney wrote:
ANd if games are on BOTH lists, the Green will apply. For me, the only things on my wishlist that are not on my want list are pre-releases, so I don't get any yellow, either.


Thats prob my situation, however you would think that wish list items would be of higher priority than want lists? ***
 
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Richard Pardoe
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crp_rulz wrote:
Thats prob my situation, however you would think that wish list items would be of higher priority than want lists? ***


Why? Want lists are (typically) games that you explicitly want in trade - so shouldn't they be higher priority in a trade?

After all, you don't even see the priority of the wish lists in Jeff's tool - just that it is on your wish list. Which means I see all the games I have listed as "5" - Don't buy this for me.
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CR Holmes
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RPardoe wrote:
crp_rulz wrote:
Thats prob my situation, however you would think that wish list items would be of higher priority than want lists? ***


Why? Want lists are (typically) games that you explicitly want in trade - so shouldn't they be higher priority in a trade?

After all, you don't even see the priority of the wish lists in Jeff's tool - just that it is on your wish list. Which means I see all the games I have listed as "5" - Don't buy this for me.


I never did get a "dont buy this for me" rating on a wish list... My "wishes" are those games that are sooo good that I just WISH I could get my hands on them wishes are dreams and stuff wants are just what I want.
 
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Ryan O'Rourke
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I have a big monitor with resolution set to 1080p. I suppose that you created this on a smaller monitor or for people with smaller monitors. I wish there was a way to view this and benefit from having the large monitor that I do, rather than have small boxes taking up less than half the width of my screen, and having to use the scroll bar to view the text within your small boxes. It makes me not want to view the guide because of the hassle. (sorry)
 
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CR Holmes
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facesnorth wrote:
I have a big monitor with resolution set to 1080p. I suppose that you created this on a smaller monitor or for people with smaller monitors. I wish there was a way to view this and benefit from having the large monitor that I do, rather than have small boxes taking up less than half the width of my screen, and having to use the scroll bar to view the text within your small boxes. It makes me not want to view the guide because of the hassle. (sorry)


Limitation of BGG itself I have LARGE pix and had to first shrink them to fit then even with them smaller they still have the scroll bars on them PLS let a BBG admin know of this problem. If enough members complain maybe they will fix the issue.

Thx
CR
 
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Richard Pardoe
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crp_rulz wrote:
I never did get a "dont buy this for me" rating on a wish list...

Where do you put games that you know are coming to you? Perhaps pre-ordered or acquired in trade? I list them as "Don't buy this for me" so that if someone should peruse my wish list, the chances are minimized that they give me a duplicate game.
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Tim K.
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This guide is extremely useful, took a lot of work, and deserves more GG tips than I currently see
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CR Holmes
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RPardoe wrote:
crp_rulz wrote:
I never did get a "dont buy this for me" rating on a wish list...

Where do you put games that you know are coming to you? Perhaps pre-ordered or acquired in trade? I list them as "Don't buy this for me" so that if someone should peruse my wish list, the chances are minimized that they give me a duplicate game.


Hmm, well I usually let everyone know Im getting it as its on my "wish" list its usually a big deal that Im getting one of them so peeps that would normally get me the game know its coming already and are looking forward to playin it with me so it usually just comes off the list if I know its coming

CR
 
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Joe Wyka
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This post is hysterical, and informative. Thanks!
 
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