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Subject: I hate ties rss

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In a number of games I own there is no provision made for what happens when two or more players wind up with the same score. The creators of these games either imply or outright say that both players are winners. Now this does not sit well with me. I want clearcut rules of victory and defeat, with each player knowing where they stand at game's end and why.

This is not simply an ego issue ("me better than you; me win"). But in running games at cons, there are often prizes that ride on wins and losses. When I look at games that do have good rules for resolving ties, I place these into my "con-friendly" list.

That being said, I would very much prefer if designers put enough thought into a game so that there are systems for tie-resolutuin.

My $0.02, adjusted for inflation.
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Jason Sample
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I thought this was going to be a thread about your dislike for twist ties and their ilk. Sorry to intrude...

Ties in a game? Yup, I agree. It seems like there should be some sort of allowance made for this possibility other than "...the tied people celebrate a shared victory..."

Peace,
JAson
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Ken H.
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I like ties, as long as they aren't too frequent. It's a matter of taste as to what counts as "too frequent", and probably depends on the game.

I see your dilemma regarding tournament prizes, though.
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Diane Close
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Oh, I thought you meant the kind that went around your neck. shake

Yup, it's been one of those days for me. Right now there are two geeklists listed one after the other, and I read the titles as one:

The Seven Deadly Sins
Which one to get?

Caused me to do a double-take: What? Which of the 7 deadlies do I want?

But that's off-topic... I hate tied games too... unless it's a coop game.
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T. Nomad
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pdclose wrote:
Oh, I thought you meant the kind that went around your neck. shake


Me, too.

OP: I say Ro sham bo. Or ninja-cowboy-grizzly.
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Simon Lundström
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If you need ties for a convention, just invent one… and tell the participants.

"In this specific game of Agricola, the tiebreaker will be food, and after that the number of family members, and after that…"

I can't see ANY people having problems with con-invented tie breakers as it can't possibly affect the strategy in other than very marginal ways.
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The Pragmatic Squad
Fear not faithful citizen! Abstract City faces many kinds of crisis but The Pragmatic Squad is here to help! It's Kid Pragmatics turn up on the rotation. Let's see what he says ...


"Golly gee wiz Captain Pragmatic. I'd just take out a good ol pencil and write some kind of tie-breaker down in the rulebook."



Good advice Kid Pragmatic! And remember kids, Just Say No to sniffing those new boxes!
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Lance McMillan
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Different preferences for different play styles.

I actually like games that can end in ties, and in fact tend to feel that roughly 25-30 percent of a game's outcomes *should* be ties. I also find it particularly annoying when a game includes tie-breaker provisions that are clearly arbitrary add-ons to the game (rather than carefully thought out design elements) in order to cater to the hard-line "there can be only one" crowd.
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David Fair
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Zimeon wrote:
If you need ties for a convention, just invent one… and tell the participants.

"In this specific game of Agricola, the tiebreaker will be food, and after that the number of family members, and after that…"

I can't see ANY people having problems with con-invented tie breakers as it can't possibly affect the strategy in other than very marginal ways.

Actually, Agricola is the perfect example of a game where the tiebreaker can and will have an impact on strategy.

My favorite idea for a tie-breaker for Agricola, and other games like it, for this reason: Reverse player order from the first turn.
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Mo Verdigast
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I thought this was about the kind of tie you wear around your neck, and I hate those a lot.

I don't mind the kind where you both play a game and tie the score.
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Byl Kravetz
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tommynomad wrote:
pdclose wrote:
Oh, I thought you meant the kind that went around your neck. shake


Me, too.

OP: I say Ro sham bo. Or ninja-cowboy-grizzly.


we play Bear-Ninja-Hunter
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Jim Cote
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http://ekted.blogspot.com/2006/05/ties.html
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Jeff Cramer
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I think that Bruno Faidutti mentioned a good way to resolve a tie is to give the win to the third place finisher.

I'd like to implement this someday. laugh
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Breno K.
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Teriyaki Donuts wrote:
I think that Bruno Faidutti mentioned a good way to resolve a tie is to give the win to the third place finisher.

I'd like to implement this someday. laugh


That sort of happens in Cosmic Eidex, when all players have 6 victory points (one point away from winning the game).
 
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john f stup
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i don't like ties either, they feel tight around my neck.
 
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Clinton Smith
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If a tie is like kissing your sister, then a win must be like getting a **** *** from her.
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Richard Johnson
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I like ties. If the goal of the game is to score points. If two people manage to score x points, they showed they played equally well in arriving at the victory condition and therefore should share the victory. The other option is end all ties/disputes with arm wrestling.
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Richard Irving
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Zimeon wrote:
If you need ties for a convention, just invent one… and tell the participants.

"In this specific game of Agricola, the tiebreaker will be food, and after that the number of family members, and after that…"

I can't see ANY people having problems with con-invented tie breakers as it can't possibly affect the strategy in other than very marginal ways.


Then you don't understand the real problem--a tiebreaker should not be arbitrary, but somehow naturally flows from the flow & goals of the game. If not, then you are not playing the to be the best player of the game, but of some unplaytested variant.

The problem if he designer had thought of one, then he would have put it in the game!
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Dave B

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Neck ties are one of the most useless pieces of apparel ever invented. Their only upside is they give guys who wear suits a way to add a little color or flair (or not and thereby be even more of a "suit").

Twist ties have their uses, I suppose.

Ties in games are fine. I once played a game of Cosmic Encounter which ended in a 3-way tie (with 4 players). Tie-breakers are fine, too, if they aren't arbitrary, or if they are mutually agreed on in advance.
 
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rri1 wrote:

Then you don't understand the real problem--a tiebreaker should not be arbitrary, but somehow naturally flows from the flow & goals of the game.


I do believe that you've just made a positive argument for it to be arbitrary. I, a totally hip & cool guy, could make the tiebreaker something sensible like the cost last weeks champagne bill divided by white tie dinner parties thrown. You, however, could make it something completely arbitrary, like 'last played tile' or even 'largest number of moderately important dyed wooden cube thingies.'

There is no special knowledge: you have the same abilities as the designer.
 
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Just call me Erik
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Balthus_Dire wrote:
Damn, I came into this thread all ready to throw down a defence of formal dress, and rail on the informalization of the world, which
trashes concepts like 'uplifted' and 'dignified'. More people should wear ties, but they should be good ties. Damn, I love a good tie.

Games, huh? Ok, I'll bite...I think ties are ok because then the next game becomes an intense show down, and that's cool.

But I care much less about game ties then I do about neckties. Just for the record.


Never have I been so sure that we are incompatible personalities. Down with the silk noose!

As for ties in games, I don't like them either. I do like that Looney Labs games are constructed in such a way as to never end in a tie, Fluxx in particular.
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Fraser
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If you don't like ties then I humbly suggest that you play better so there isn't a tie cool
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Karlsen wrote:
If you don't like ties then I humbly suggest that you play better so there isn't a tie cool


I dislike the possibilities of a tie. There should, in my simple dualistic mind, be only one victor. This is, again, fairly important for those of us who run tournaments. But I also walk away dissatisfied when there are multiple winners in a game -- unless it's a co-op.


Oh, and as for those mostrous devices called neckties, I loathe them as well. The lowest rung in hell should be reserved for their inventor.
 
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Fraser
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Back in the days when there were less maps we played every map back to back
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Osiris Ra wrote:
Karlsen wrote:
If you don't like ties then I humbly suggest that you play better so there isn't a tie cool


I dislike the possibilities of a tie. There should, in my simple dualistic mind, be only one victor. This is, again, fairly important for those of us who run tournaments.
So play two player elimination or sudden death type games, or play better. And also don't play in, or run, multiplayer tournament games cool

Personally I think multiplayer games, with the exception of RPGs, are not at all suited to tournament play.
 
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Michael Kefauver
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I don't mind ties when it's one of those four-part tie breaker things.
"If 2 people tie for points, go to food, if tied, go to animals, if tied, go to family, if tied, STAY TIED" sort of thing, I don't mind. If it's THAT close, I'd hate to win/lose because of some tiny arbitrary thing like flipping a coin. If it's that close, both win.
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