Joe Kundlak
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Hi folks,

Couple months back I looked at the Sim City Card game because I wanted to know if such a game exists. But that one is a little bit different to what I wanted. Therefore I started fiddling with rules for such a game and this is the first part of them (the details to the phases are not yet translated to english, but are quite laid out already).

Therefore I would like to know your oppinions on the whole concept and the parts to get some constructive criticism.

Thank you!

Joe

---------------------------

Components

Zone Cards (Green – living space, Blue – business space, Red – indudstry space, Yellow – entertainment space, in an expansion maybe?)
- they are in different sizes (1-6) which define options for buildings
- they are drawn randomly
- the size depicts the number of possible buildings on Zone
- they contain:
Name
Coloured fields showing the size of the Zone
Payment in money for the Rent of the whole Zone
Auction price


Eventualy additional rules on some cards (more people living there because it’s an exclusive place, higher rentals from inhabitants etc.)
Number of the card in its deck


Buildidng Cards
- they designate the amount of tenants (think about types of buildings for each Zone...)
- they contain:
Name
Building size (space taken up in the Zone)
Tenant capacity (circles...)
Rental per tenant
Number of the card in its deck


Population cards
- these cards define and modify the average status and changes of population and the development of it for the given player
- the population can either grow as a whole (on all Zones) or only on some of them
- it can also stagnate or even decrease (because of a crisis, etc.)
- they can also contain effects on other players than the one who drew the card
- there can be various other effects on the population (like „for each 3 industrial Zones in play the population in residential Zones decreases by 1 per building“) etc.

Situational cards
- contain significant events throughout the daily life
- they can mean various bonuses or sanctions for some types of zones/buildings
- they can rule out increasing or decreasing taxes and rentals
- and other various effects can be contained there



Preparing the game

Card decks are mixed – Zone cards, Building cards, Population cards and Situational cards – and they are laid out in the middle of the table.

Every player gets:
- Two Zone cards
- Two building cards
- Money in amount of xxxxx Eur

The Starting player is determined (as you like). The position of the Starting player is moved in the order of play every turn. This way every player around the table gets to start a turn.

Goal of the Game

The main goal of the Game is to earn Money in amount of xxxx Euro.

Alternatively the players can decide that the game ends, when one of them has three fully filled Zones, on which all buildings are also fully filled with inhabitants (tenants). This player is the winner.

The game is ended upon finishing the turn in which a winner was established. This way other players have the opportunity to finish their last moves and adjustments (if they are still to play in the turn). This also means that there can be multiple winners (in case of a tie at the end of the turn) or that any other player can get ahead of the original winning player (who triggered the end of the game) and take the win for himself.

The Turn is consisted of multiple steps:

Zone rental – players simultaneously place one Zone in front of them
Project engineering – every player draws a Building card, or if a Building card is already skipped and left on the table by a previous player, an Auction takes place for it (instead of taking a new card)
Building – players simultaneously lay down a Building to one of their Zones
Population – beginning with the Starting player every player in order of play turns over the topmost Population card, carries out the written instructions and discards the card to its discard pile
Everyday life – when all players are done playing the Population cards, the Beginning player turns over the topmost Situational card; he carries out the written instructions and discards the card to its discard pile
- when any of the decks runs out during the turn, the Starting player immediately shuffles the relevant discard pile and places it as a new deck
Earnings – at the end of the turn the players receive earnings from tenants in buildings in their Zones
Payments – players then pay rents for their Zones to the Bank
Real estate market and the End of the Turn – the players have the option to sell one of their buildings in their hands (not on their Zones) in the Real estate market to another player; subsequently the Turn ends and the position of the Starting player moves to the next player in order of play
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Jae
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this sounds similar to, but distinctly different from

Big City
and
Chinatown

maybe also a distant relations to

Fifth Avenue
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Agent J
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He's looking real sharp in his 1940's fedora. He's got nerves of steel, an iron will, and several other metal-themed attributes. His fur is water tight and he's always up for a fight.
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Joe-

I also tried to make a city building card game! How cool. Anyway, mine ended up being a business-oriented game as it evolved from making a city grow. In the end I cut the entire city bit out...

Good luck keeping it in yours!

Idea: Maybe yellow buildings could be government buildings?
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Joe Kundlak
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Thx guys!

Looked at the above mentioned games and they go roughly in the direction, but not with the same bus

And yellow buildings being Government... indeed! It could bring in another layer to the game. Interesting...
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Jae
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In the US(as used by some phone listings and government listings), the color coding is something like this:

White - Residential
Blue - Government
Yellow - Commercial
Grey - Industrial
Orange - Medical
Green - Agricultural
(Red - illegal)

some food for thought
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Matthew Jones
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I really like this idea, I would buy it in a heartbeat! I do have a couple of thoughts to share. You're more than welcome to take or leave them.

Joeyeti wrote:
The Turn is consisted of multiple steps:

Zone rental – players simultaneously place one Zone in front of them
Project engineering – every player draws a Building card, or if a Building card is already skipped and left on the table by a previous player, an Auction takes place for it (instead of taking a new card)
Building – players simultaneously lay down a Building to one of their Zones
Population – beginning with the Starting player every player in order of play turns over the topmost Population card, carries out the written instructions and discards the card to its discard pile
Everyday life – when all players are done playing the Population cards, the Beginning player turns over the topmost Situational card; he carries out the written instructions and discards the card to its discard pile
- when any of the decks runs out during the turn, the Starting player immediately shuffles the relevant discard pile and places it as a new deck
Earnings – at the end of the turn the players receive earnings from tenants in buildings in their Zones
Payments – players then pay rents for their Zones to the Bank
Real estate market and the End of the Turn – the players have the option to sell one of their buildings in their hands (not on their Zones) in the Real estate market to another player; subsequently the Turn ends and the position of the Starting player moves to the next player in order of play


It seems as if you've got population cards that . If they contain effects, alongside the Everyday Life effects, the game might seem a bit chaotic. IMHO, it would be better if Population cards should just be number cards that get added to fill up a building placed on a zone.

So you've got situational cards (I read that like being Event Cards, things that happen in the city that affect the citizens). So... What if every player was playing in the same city, developing different sections of it to their profit? And if you had a Situation Card that was drawn before the zone rental stage. Basically move up Everyday Life to the front of the turn order. Then each player has to play according to the event that occurred on the Situation Card. And those could be good or bad.

Just some thoughts. They're getting interrupted cause I got to go to work now

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Agent J
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He's looking real sharp in his 1940's fedora. He's got nerves of steel, an iron will, and several other metal-themed attributes. His fur is water tight and he's always up for a fight.
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He's a semi-aquatic egg-laying mammal of action. He's a furry little flat-foot who'll never flinch from a fray. He's got more than just mad skills, he's got a beaver tail and a bill.
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You might want to check out the game design contest going on.

I like that there could be different winning conditions, kind of like one way you're playing to get the money, in the other you're just trying to build a city.

Is there anything to spend the money on, though, besides the auctions?
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Wade Broadhead
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Check out Adobe, Stone, and Steel. It's a card driven city building game I'm playtesting right now. Its a bit more like Twilight Struggle meets Big City, and moonlights with a euro.
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Joe Kundlak
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Bagherra wrote:
In the US(as used by some phone listings and government listings), the color coding is something like this:

White - Residential
Blue - Government
Yellow - Commercial
Grey - Industrial
Orange - Medical
Green - Agricultural
(Red - illegal)

some food for thought

The colors may be the last thing to be settled, as a design-decision I mean. Therefore this may come in handy then, thx!


Sigrdrifa wrote:
I really like this idea, I would buy it in a heartbeat! I do have a couple of thoughts to share. You're more than welcome to take or leave them.

It seems as if you've got population cards that . If they contain effects, alongside the Everyday Life effects, the game might seem a bit chaotic. IMHO, it would be better if Population cards should just be number cards that get added to fill up a building placed on a zone.

So you've got situational cards (I read that like being Event Cards, things that happen in the city that affect the citizens). So... What if every player was playing in the same city, developing different sections of it to their profit? And if you had a Situation Card that was drawn before the zone rental stage. Basically move up Everyday Life to the front of the turn order. Then each player has to play according to the event that occurred on the Situation Card. And those could be good or bad.

Just some thoughts. They're getting interrupted cause I got to go to work now



I will digest this, thx for the ideas!

Jythier wrote:
You might want to check out the game design contest going on.

I like that there could be different winning conditions, kind of like one way you're playing to get the money, in the other you're just trying to build a city.

Is there anything to spend the money on, though, besides the auctions?


I think I have seen the contest, but I cannot promise I will have time to fulfill any dates, therefore I might not participate cool

This is not because I am lazy, but because I have more things on my neck all the time and I am switching to and fro between them to continue.

I did not yet consider using the money for anything else than the sole "goal" purpose, but it might turn out to be an additional layer (maybe only a slim one, as to buying something for them to increase a thing here or make another thing better there). I shall see...

denverarch wrote:
Check out Adobe, Stone, and Steel. It's a card driven city building game I'm playtesting right now. Its a bit more like Twilight Struggle meets Big City, and moonlights with a euro.


Will look it up, thx!
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Agent J
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He's looking real sharp in his 1940's fedora. He's got nerves of steel, an iron will, and several other metal-themed attributes. His fur is water tight and he's always up for a fight.
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I had forgotten Adobe, Stone, and Steel. That game is awesome to read about... very different than this though, but another place to draw inspiration from.
 
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Matthew Jones
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Joeyeti wrote:
I will digest this, thx for the ideas!


I realized, once I got home that I didn't get to finish my thought and I had a tiny bit more to say.

Sigrdrifa wrote:

So you've got situational cards (I read that like being Event Cards, things that happen in the city that affect the citizens). So... What if every player was playing in the same city, developing different sections of it to their profit? And if you had a Situation Card that was drawn before the zone rental stage. Basically move up Everyday Life to the front of the turn order. Then each player has to play according to the event that occurred on the Situation Card. And those could be good or bad.


Ok, so what I think would happen with putting the Situation Cards at the front of the turn would be to allow a player to see the potential problem and develop for it. It would make the game about who can lay the best cards.

Leaving it until after you bought your property and played your cards might be a way to have that chaotic element that either zaps or helps players after they've made a turn. "You've just bought a building, but it's in need of repair, pay x amount." Or "Your industrial properties produce an extra gross of goods, receive x amount."

I think it would boil down to personal preference. Beginning of turn = More player control. End of turn = Less player control/more reaction next turn (and more true to Real Life?) As I think about it, both ways might be fun to play, though with different outcomes.

I want to see this game...
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Joe Kundlak
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Sigrdrifa wrote:


Ok, so what I think would happen with putting the Situation Cards at the front of the turn would be to allow a player to see the potential problem and develop for it. It would make the game about who can lay the best cards.

Leaving it until after you bought your property and played your cards might be a way to have that chaotic element that either zaps or helps players after they've made a turn. "You've just bought a building, but it's in need of repair, pay x amount." Or "Your industrial properties produce an extra gross of goods, receive x amount."

I think it would boil down to personal preference. Beginning of turn = More player control. End of turn = Less player control/more reaction next turn (and more true to Real Life?) As I think about it, both ways might be fun to play, though with different outcomes.

I want to see this game...


You know what? This could be an optional rule (either way). I could state that they are drawn in the beginning as default and for folks who want a more "realistic and thus chaotic and more unpredictable" touch, they can draw them near the end. Bam! A variation right out of the box...

What do you say?
 
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Mark Slater
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Also check out Sim City: The Card Game has some elements of what you are aiming at.
 
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Joe Kundlak
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Liggur wrote:
Also check out Sim City: The Card Game has some elements of what you are aiming at.

Yup, I wrote it at the very beginning cool
 
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Theo Adorno
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Also check out Landlord for some ideas how different buildings or population groups could influence each other.
 
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Joe Kundlak
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I will have more time now I hope so I will look on the above suggestions (and finally start making cards for the decks).
 
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Joe Kundlak
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Guys,

here are all the steps explained in more detail. Please disregard the placement of the Situational cards in the middle, this is a translation of the original rules (with some updates) I made before I got feedback here on that topic. Therefore this is purely an explanation of the Steps.


------------------------------


1. Zone Rental
The players have the option to start negotiations regarding a new building Zone.
A player can draw a new building Zone only when he has no unplayed Zones in his hand and there is at least one Building with tenants on each of his played Zones. If he meets these requirements, he can draw a new Zone in this Step. He cannot play his new Zone in immediately (as he would do with a Zone he already has on his hand in the previous Turn), he must hold the new Zone until the next Turn.

Each player (except a player that has drawn a new Zone this Turn) can choose a Zone from his hand and lay it face-down on the table (so that the others do not see the Zone he chose). If he chooses not to play a Zone, he does not have to. Then the participating players simultaneously turn their laid-out Zones face-up in front of them. Each player who laid out a new Zone must immediately pay its Cost in full amount, which is printed on the Zone card.


2. Project engineering
Players obtain new Buildings for their business needs.
Following the turn order each player gets a card from the Buildings deck. The player can either draw and take the topmost card without revealing it, or he can put it face-up on the table and take the next card; he cannot refuse to take the second card, even if it would be disadvantageous to his plans. Either way if he has taken a Building card, he is done and the next player in the turn order gets the choice.

If there is a Building card left on the table face-up, when the next player is about to get a Building card, there will be an auction for the face-up Building card first. Each Building card has its minimum auction price listed. Bids are received by the starting player for the actual Turn. The player, that bids the highest for the face-up card (when no one else wants to raise the bid), pays the final auction price to the Bank, takes the face-up Building card and cannot get another Building card this turn. The turn order resumes and the next player takes a Building card from the deck etc. This Step ends when all players have either taken a Building card from the deck, or have auctioned a Building card off the table.

If no player has interest in the face-up Building card, or a new Building card is drawn from the deck to be put face-up on the table by a player, or there is a Building card left after the last player has taken a Building card, this face-up card is discarded to its discard pile by the starting player.


3. Construction
Players fill their building Zones with new Buildings.
Each player may secretly pick a Building, which he wants to build on one of his laid-out Zones in this Turn. He must take into account the compatibility of the Building and the Zone (which means that he cannot build an Electronics Shop on a Residential Zone, or an Apartment Block on an Industrial Zone). The compatibility is expressed by the color similarity of the Building and the Zone. Each player can also choose not to build a Building this Turn. Each building player puts his Building card face-down on the table (so that no one can see what Building he chose). Then all new Buildings are turned face-up simultaneously and assigned to their building Zones. Each new Building receives an amount of tenant counters equal to half of the capacity of the Building (rounded down) from the tennant counter supply.

If a player has decided not to build a Building this Turn, he can choose one of his existing Buildings that is not fully filled with tenants yet. He can then take up to two tennant counters from the supply and add them to that Building only if he will not entirely fill up the Building this way. If he has no such Building, e.g. all his Buildings are either fully filled up with tenants, or there are only Buildings with one less tenant than their capacity, he cannot use this advantage.


4. Population
Players get or lose tenants in their Buildings.
The Population cards determine the inflow or outflow of tenants to the Buildings in the player's Zones. Each player in turn order draws one Population card and immediately executes the written Event. The card Event can either add tenants to some or all of the player's Buildings (if they are not yet filled), or it can cause Tenants to be removed. If the last Tenant is removed from a Building, the owning player of the Building must discard this Building to its discard pile (with the consequences written below). It may also happen, that there is a stagnation of the Population and in this case the amount of tenants does not change.

Some Population cards can also contain a temporary bonus or a restriction to a particular Building. If the player draws such a card and owns the mentioned Building(s), he puts this card down in front of him until the end of the Turn. This Population card can then have an effect on the Earnings or Rents of that player, or with any other described actions. Before the start of the next Turn all players discard these cards to the Population discard pile (see Step 8 - Real estate market and the End of the Turn).

If by chance a player had to discard all his Buildings from one of his Zones (for instance because of losing all their tenants, see above), he retains this Zone at least until the end of the current Turn and thus he must also pay the Rent for it at the end of the current Turn. After receiving Earnings and paying Rents he can choose to auction this Zone to any of the other players. If there is no interest in the Zone, it is returned back to the Zone discard pile and the selling player does not get any money for it. If any player auctions the Zone off, he pays its auction price to its former owner and puts the Zone in front of himself.

A player can never try to sell his last laid-out Zone by an auction. He must retain this Zone at least until he gets and lays out a second Zone. Only then can he try to sell this previous Zone.


5. Everyday life
Players meet the usual everyday problems of life.
Situational cards infuse various circumstantial influences on life in the cities to the game through bonuses, restrictions or other one-time events. The Starting player of the actual Turn is the one who turns the topmost Situational card and executes the written orders. After that he discards this card to Situational discard pile.

Some Situational cards may also contain a temporary bonus or a restriction to a particular Building or Zone. If such a card is drawn by the Starting player, after executing the main Event it is laid down in the middle of the table until the end of the Turn. This card has an effect on Earnings and/or Rent calculation. Before the beginning of the next Turn this card is discarded to its discard pile by the Starting player (see Step 8 - Real estate market and the End of the Turn).


6. Earnings
Players get Earnings from the tenants and inhabitants of their Buildings.
Before the end of the Turn each player gets Earnings from the rent, paid by inhabitants or tenants of his laid-out Buildings. An Earning of a Building is equal to the amount of the inhabitants/tenants of that Building times the amount of rent for one inhabitant/tenant, written on the Building card. The player's total Earnings equal the sum of individual Earnings from all his Buildings with tenants/inhabitants. These total Earnings are paid to each player in money from the Bank.

When counting Earnings each player has to take into account all relevant bonuses/restrictions from his own laid-out cards or the laid-out Population or Situational cards.


7. Payments
Players pay the rent for the building Zones they use.
After receiving Earnings from his Buildings each player must pay the Rents for the rental of the Zones, which he has laid before him. The total Rent is equal to the sum of all Rents for the player's Zones. This amount must be paid by the player to the Bank in money.

When counting Rents each player has to take into account all relevant bonuses/restrictions from his own laid-out cards or the laid-out Population or Situational cards.


8. Real estate market and the End of the Turn
Players enter the Real estate market and prepare for the next season.
On the end of the Turn each player has the option to offer one of his unplayed Buildings on the Real estate market to one of the opponents, whom he chooses. The owner of the Building does not show it to the possible receiving player yet, he only informs about the type of the Building (Residential, Commercial, Industrial...), maximum amount of tenants (inhabitants) and the price he chose. He can bargain on the price with the potential receiving player further. If the potential receiving player agrees to the price, he pays the amount in money to the owner of the Building and gets the Building card without showing it to other players. If they do not agree on the price (or the potential receiving player refuses the transaction), the owning player retains the Building and loses the chance to offer it (or any other unused Building from his hand) to any other player this Turn.

After all Real estate market transactions have been completed (if any) the current Turn ends. Players discard any temporarily active Population cards to their discard pile. The Starting player also discards any temporarily active Situational card to its discard pile. The position of the Starting player passes on to the next player in turn order and a new Turn begins with Step 1.


 
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Matthew Jones
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Joeyeti wrote:

8. Real estate market and the End of the Turn
Players enter the Real estate market and prepare for the next season.


Is there going to be a next season for real estate given the current market conditions?

I'm sorry, I just couldn't help myself.

Your game looks more and more fun to play.

MJ
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Joe Kundlak
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Joeyeti wrote:

8. Real estate market and the End of the Turn
Players enter the Real estate market and prepare for the next season.

Sigrdrifa wrote:

Is there going to be a next season for real estate given the current market conditions?

I'm sorry, I just couldn't help myself.

Your game looks more and more fun to play.

MJ

laugh No... the current market will be destroyed, only to rise from the ashes again.

And I am glad you are liking the looks of the game
 
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Samuel Hinz
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i haven't read your detailed phases post yet, but i too am liking the sound of your game.

 
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Joe Kundlak
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abodi wrote:
i haven't read your detailed phases post yet, but i too am liking the sound of your game.


Then I am eager to hear your oppinion once you have read them
 
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Joe Kundlak
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Guys and Ladies,

I have decided to run two separated -awarded brainstorms if anyone is interested (each winning set will be awarded 5 so far, as I only have 10 currently... but it may be raised if I obtain some more ):

- 1st for a set of Zone names (at least 20 would be good) - 5
- 2nd for a set of Building names (at least 25 would be good) - 5

Participation is open up to 9th of November so that I can collect any entries on 10th of November once I get to work in the morning (which is around 08.00 CET, so an hour less then right now ).


I am looking for various generic Zone names and Building names. They should be divided into the three current categories - Residential, Commercial, Industrial. It would be best to fill the categories equally, but if you do not, never mind (it wont affect your chance of winning the ).

Also, the more, the better (but again, this will not affect the winning participant(s)).

The only thing that matters in respect of the , is the overall feeling of the names and their originality.

Be creative! goo
 
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Wade Broadhead
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By zone do you mean neighboorhood type name or zone district name? So like WHitehall or commercial mixed use, Multifamily residential? Zone names are very boring, neighboorhood names could be very creative but related to the fictional place where you game is sited.
 
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Joe Kundlak
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denverarch wrote:
By zone do you mean neighboorhood type name or zone district name? So like WHitehall or commercial mixed use, Multifamily residential? Zone names are very boring, neighboorhood names could be very creative but related to the fictional place where you game is sited.

You have hit a tough choice there...

I can either have the Zones and Buildings be universal types, which would be clear to anyone from anywhere on the World, or I could invent fictional names for the Zones and Buildings, which would be maybe more appealing and "theme-y".

I guess at this stage I will go for universal types (e.g. Industrial Park, Main Street, Oldtown, Group Housing, Harbor etc.) for both categories.

And once the base set of Zone/Building cards is created and tested, I/we can invent also fictional names (as I have not yet considered making a "theme" for the whole City).

Also bear in mind that those future potential fictional names should not resemble any existing urban area/name, which would mean something to some people, but nothing to others.
 
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Joe Kundlak
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Additionaly here are my ToDo things to add to the rules/game.



ToDo:
- Move the Everyday Life as the first Action (the Starting player turns the card over), or put it as a choice that affects the flow of the game (easier – put it in front, advanced – put it in the middle)
- cards – according to decks
- find typical buildings and divide them to categories
- ? – shuffle the more expensive buildings separately and put them under the cheaper buildings? Or will it be as in the real life – you can build it but you have no money for it...
- A player may pull down a Building for a demolition fee (2) and the question there is, if he can do it as a regular action (instead of something else) or if it is additional to all other actions (free)? – the demolished Building is recycled to its discard pile
- ?? A player may add his tenant to an opponent’s Building – which he gets an Earnings share for afterwards... But this way he also helps to fill up that Building, so he must choose wisely – can he afford to raise his Earnings, when he also fills up his opponent’s Building?

 
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