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Subject: Nothing up my Sleeve Math Trade - OLWLG use required rss

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Jeff Michaud
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Important!
for this math trade want lists will be submitted only by using the online wantlist generator/editor ... you may want to make sure you can login to that tool (no password required) if you haven't already.

Also Very Important!
You must read the Limits & Rules below before joining in on this math trade!


"Nothing up my Sleeve" refers to the fact that for this math trade, once the list is closed to submissions and want list submissions are turned on, everyone will have access to all want lists submitted thus far (not just the MT organizer). Click here for more info on this idea

Geeklist (to add items): http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/34221

Deadlines:
Submissions (including sweeteners): Saturday, August 30th, 10pm Eastern Time
Want lists due: Tuesday, September 2nd, 10:30pm Eastern Time

Results posted: Tuesday, September 2nd, about 11pm Eastern Time

Limits: (per person)
* Max of 3 non-game items (that includes geek gold, gift certificates, etc)
* Geekgold offerings must be at least 45 GG

Rules:
1. * Non-game items must be added as "Outside the Scope of BGG" (game id 23953) or "Miscellaneous Game Accessory" (game id 5985), and you must within (at the bottom) of the item description put a "+altname+ Short Name Here -altname-" (minus the quotes) where "Short Name Here" for example would be "125 Geek Gold", or "$40 ThoughtHammer Gift Card", etc.

2. * "sweeteners" are to be listed using either the GAMEID formatting (prefered, example Hansa) or a link to the game's page (this will look like http://www.boardgamegeek.com/game/8989). If you don't use this format your sweeteners won't show up in the OLWLG properly.

3. * You must accurately describe your game's condition, language, edition, etc. If you do not then the condition will be assumed to be "like new" and complete, English language version. Do not simply say "as pictured" as it's not always obvious. When in doubt though, folks should post a comment to the item and/or geekmail the item's owner with questions.

3.5. * For games not brand new (in shrink) you must inventory the game's components and list anything missing. Do not assume it's complete (I've been on the receiving end 2 or 3 times thus far where the owner assumed and it wasn't)

4. * Traders from all countries are allowed.

5. * Specify your restrictions on shipping in your listing. If you don't it will be assumed you'll ship worlwide for free. (Note: if you list "mirror" shipping, or a limit to how much you will be pay toward the shipping, then you must state where you would be shipping from (zipcode for USA locations).

6. * If you are offering games that you do not have in your possession (ie. that you'll order and have shipped from an online retailer if it trades), you must state in your description that is what you are doing.

7. * No Geek-gold or Gift certificate arbitrage... that means you are not allowed to attempt to trade your geekgold for someone elses geekgold offering, or attempt to trade your gift certificate for someone elses gift certificate offering. However attempting to trade geekgold for a gift certificate or vice versa is allowed.

8. * I reserve the right to remove games from the list for whatever reason (though unlikely). If you are on the bad traders list, your games will be removed

9. * Use this forum thread for questions & discussions of this math trade (though for questions on individual items as those as comments to the specific geeklist item)

If you are unfamiliar with math trades, please read the BGG wiki page at http://www.boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/Math_Trades

By posting an entry on this list, you agree to abide both by the general math trade guidelines and by those specific to this math trade.

Trade Resolver: TradeMaximizer (trying to maximize number of trades)
* Duplicate Protection
* Linear Priorities

Note: only errors by the moderator will invalidate the results.

Note: in the case that there is a problem after the results are posted, at most it will only invalidate the affected trade chain(s) and not the entire results set. In addition if the problem can be resolved by the most directly affected party or parties, then that is perfectly acceptable.

Note: you can start putting together your want list(s) immediately, even before you enter your own items into the math trade
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Jeff Michaud
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Official Results
official wants: http://activityclub.org/bgg/34221-officialwants.txt

official results: http://activityclub.org/bgg/34221-results-official.txt

results summary: http://activityclub.org/bgg/34221-results-summary.html

most wanted/unwanted lists: http://activityclub.org/bgg/34221-mostwanted.txt

And I got shut out of my own math trade... had a couple show up... really looked like I was going to get Catan Struggle for Rome for various of my items but SFR didn't trade either, guess we didn't fit into a chain.
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Jeff Michaud
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Submit wants! How to see wants, and possible results
Ok, for those who didn't already notice, the geeklist is locked down, lot names have been generated, and online submissions have been turned on.

The deadline to submit is Tues 10:30pm ET.... I don't know if the hurricane is going to cause BGG downtime or not, but I suggest folks make sure they have already logged into the OLWLG as soon as possible, BGG downtime should not affect us now that the final resync has been done (well it will affect folks being able to research games but hopefully folks already know the games they want).

The link for obtaining the current snapshot of all the wants submitted thus far is in the OLWLG under step 4's "OFficial Format" tab (in place of the actual). You can feed that into TradeMax yourself or....

... Lord Nelson has been nice enough to setup a script on his server to fetch the wants and run TradeMax once an hour (on the hour I believe) for those that want to see "what could be" their trades. Those will be available at:

http://thecassandraproject.org/jeremy/results.txt

If BGG does go down I'll make sure that link is also in the same spot as for fetching the full set of wants. Cross your fingers both New Orleans and BGG stay up!

ps: I suggest folks to NOT put anything on their lists they don't really want, submit, with the plan to remove it later... just in case you are unable to get back later to remove such a want
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Jeff Michaud
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Reserved
Reserved 3

Note: for those looking at the raw BGG geeklist, you can ignore the %options% section you may see on some of my items... I don't think I'm going to have time to complete that new functionality for this MT
 
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Subhan Michael Tindall
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Please post the # of iterations & the seed you will be using for final run of the trade - this is important information for us play-at-home types, esp. in a trade of this nature!

 
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Jeff Michaud
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subhan wrote:
Please post the # of iterations & the seed you will be using for final run of the trade - this is important information for us play-at-home types, esp. in a trade of this nature!

Iterations/seed not being used, only Linear priorities, require-colons, require-usernames, and allow-dummies.

Also the link everyone will be given to retrieve the master set of want lists will be fully formatted with TradeMax options and only needs to be fed into TradeMax.

The link by the way will be

http://activityclub.org/bgg/getwants.cgi?listid=34221

and you can see the format (everyone will also be able to tell who hasn't submitted any wants yet).
 
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Dan Cain
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Is there going to be a "wishlist" geeklist started for requests for items to be added to the trade?

Thanks,
LA
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Utah BGGer
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Lots of people are breaking rule #5 already, listing up to $xx shipping, but not stating a zip code.

Just out of curiosity, why the gift cert arbitrage? Seems like it might be a useful thing to swap if, say, I've got a $50 B&B GC and a $50 Thoughthammer GC and someone else wanted to swap my $50 Thoughthammer for another $50 B&B.
 
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Jeff Michaud
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lastalchemist wrote:
Is there going to be a "wishlist" geeklist started for requests for items to be added to the trade?

Not for this one... I suggest folks use the "[statistics]" link from the OLWLG home page to see what folks in the MT have on their wish and/or want lists.

In general I also recommend folks just offer everything they have for trade
 
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Jeff Michaud
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utahBGG wrote:
Lots of people are breaking rule #5 already, listing up to $xx shipping, but not stating a zip code.

Argh, they should see the big red notice at the top that they must read all the rules before adding any items

utahBGG wrote:
Just out of curiosity, why the gift cert arbitrage? Seems like it might be a useful thing to swap if, say, I've got a $50 B&B GC and a $50 Thoughthammer GC and someone else wanted to swap my $50 Thoughthammer for another $50 B&B.

Yea, I had thought about that... and I'd like to do it myself. But my bigger concern is folks who are simply trying to get get for example a $50 ThoughtHammer GC by offering a $25 ThoughtHammer GC. Maybe next time I'll come up with language that will allow it but still ban folks from using MT's to get free GC $$'s by trading up only in GC amount.
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JeffyJeff wrote:
utahBGG wrote:
Lots of people are breaking rule #5 already, listing up to $xx shipping, but not stating a zip code.

Argh, they should see the big red notice at the top that they must read all the rules before adding any items


For those of us shipping free to the US and first $X outside of US do we still need to provide zipcode? I didn't think where in the US you shipped from mattered when shipping internationally?
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Jeff Michaud
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cuzzle wrote:
For those of us shipping free to the US and first $X outside of US do we still need to provide zipcode? I didn't think where in the US you shipped from mattered when shipping internationally?

I don't think it matters either, and as long as it's clear you are shipping from the USA, which I think it is if you say you will ship free to the USA but only cover 1st $x elsewhere.
 
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Utah BGGer
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cuzzle wrote:
JeffyJeff wrote:
utahBGG wrote:
Lots of people are breaking rule #5 already, listing up to $xx shipping, but not stating a zip code.

Argh, they should see the big red notice at the top that they must read all the rules before adding any items :(


For those of us shipping free to the US and first $X outside of US do we still need to provide zipcode? I didn't think where in the US you shipped from mattered when shipping internationally?


Oh yeah, good point.
 
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CJ Faria
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Is there going to be a request game list added for this math trade? I need some very specfic stuff. LOL
 
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Utah BGGer
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CJHeart wrote:
Is there going to be a request game list added for this math trade? I need some very specfic stuff. LOL


Unless your LOL was a joke I didn't get, this question has already been answered:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/2595197#2595082

 
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Utah BGGer
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enzo622 wrote:

Speaking of breaking rules, your name is "Japan Man" but you live in the US?

That's gotta be breaking a rule somewheres... :p


I changed it just so that your post wouldn't make any sense.

On an unrelated note, I see you've added your Cutthroat Caverns again. No luck moving it, eh? Surprising to me.
 
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Eric Flood
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Thanks for adding rule #5!
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JeffyJeff wrote:
Yea, I had thought about that... and I'd like to do it myself. But my bigger concern is folks who are simply trying to get get for example a $50 ThoughtHammer GC by offering a $25 ThoughtHammer GC. Maybe next time I'll come up with language that will allow it but still ban folks from using MT's to get free GC $$'s by trading up only in GC amount.


Why do you care? No one is forced to add items to their wantlists.

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Utah BGGer
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jdludlow wrote:
JeffyJeff wrote:
Yea, I had thought about that... and I'd like to do it myself. But my bigger concern is folks who are simply trying to get get for example a $50 ThoughtHammer GC by offering a $25 ThoughtHammer GC. Maybe next time I'll come up with language that will allow it but still ban folks from using MT's to get free GC $$'s by trading up only in GC amount.


Why do you care? No one is forced to add items to their wantlists.



Plus, I tend to think that the limit of 3 non-board-game items per person rule takes care of this. It's much better than the 1 game for every non-game rule.
 
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Lou Seelbach
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Let me just say that this has the best set of math trade rules I've ever seen.
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Utah BGGer
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By the way, big thanks to JeffyJeff for organizing and running the MT!
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I love Mathtrade. Thanks Jeff!!
 
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Jeff Michaud
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jdludlow wrote:
JeffyJeff wrote:
Yea, I had thought about that... and I'd like to do it myself. But my bigger concern is folks who are simply trying to get get for example a $50 ThoughtHammer GC by offering a $25 ThoughtHammer GC. Maybe next time I'll come up with language that will allow it but still ban folks from using MT's to get free GC $$'s by trading up only in GC amount.
Why do you care? No one is forced to add items to their wantlists.

I think you are confused as I don't see what no one being forced to add items to their want lists has to do with it.

I guess if you like dealing with a middle man taking a commision when you could have bypassed the middle man, then it's fine. Or paying a 3rd party for a credit report when you can get it for free once a year from the credit reporting agencies then it's also fine.

But why should someone in a math trade get less so someone else get make a profit for doing nothing? Maybe an example is in order to make it clear...

(usera) realgame : 25gc 35gc
(user-middle) 25gc : 35gc
(userc) 35gc : .....

Now if there is a sub-chain of "realgame <- 25gc <- 35gc <- ..." then that means the same sub-chain leaving out item 25gc would have been there if 25gc wasn't there. usera get's less so user-middle could get a cut....

... it's taking advantage (gaming the system) that we are maximizing the number of items traded. But it's not a real trade. Adding that item into the chain does not facilitate other items being traded.

Now as I mentioned above, I do agree that we should allow certain GC trades when the GC's are for specific and different stores. One good example would be where the 25gc is for a popular online game store, and the 35gc is for something like JoAnn Fabrics. In that case usera is probably a lot less likely to have the 35gc on the want list for realgame and so user-middle does facilitate more trades.

In any case, I'm not changing it for this MT... but for the next one I run if I have time I'll try to come up with the right language for the rule to allow GC's to be traded for GC's under certain conditions like for JoAnn Fabrics example above.
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Utah BGGer
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Is anyone else considering adding a copy or two or three of California after Tanga's case sale today? Or perhaps a better question is whether anyone actually wants the game even though the MT stats say that no one wants it and 2 are already listed?
 
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Jeff Michaud
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utahBGG wrote:
Is anyone else considering adding a copy or two or three of California after Tanga's case sale today? Or perhaps a better question is whether anyone actually wants the game even though the MT stats say that no one wants it and 2 are already listed?

I would not put any copies you are "expecting" from a Tanga order today into this MT... Tanga has been known to take a long time to ship and you just don't know when they will arrive.

And given they were selling them by the case today at a net cost of less than $4/copy, I don't think offering them solo is going to get many takers. Best to add it as a sweetener with other items.
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