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Subject: A warning regarding purchasing games in Vancouver rss

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Last week I flew from Toronto to Vancouver to spend a week with my brother and his wife. Prior to departing, I posted this thread... http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/345707 ...asking about game stores in Vancouver, and received some very helpful replies. I ended up visiting 2 stores: http://www.drexollgames.com/ (the West 4th location) and http://www.strategiesgames.ca/. [Edit: My last reply in this thread... http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/346286 ...explains the unfortunate events at the beginning of my visit and the games that I ended up purchasing.]

Now, before I get into my cautionary tale, I'll start with the positives regarding Drexoll Games. Firstly, the staff member who was working (Mat), was super-helpful and super-friendly, and even looked up several games on BGG for me. Secondly, their stock of games was VERY impressive - they have got a very large selection. Thirdly, they have a whole lot of open games at the back of the store and a couple of cafe-style tables and benches, which I presume means that you can just sit down and start playing one of their games - a VERY cool feature! And fourthly, they were even playing fantastic music in the store. When I heard Bob Dylan, I was impressed, and then when Nina Simone started singing "Sinner Man", I wanted to stick around all day!

BUT...

I then went to Strategies and was absolutely blown away by the price difference with their games. For example, at Drexoll, Pirate's Cove had a price sticker of $62.99, whereas at Strategies it was $52. At Drexoll, StarCraft: The Board Game was $99.99, compared with $84 at Strategies. This is a MASSIVE difference! At Strategies, I didn't even want to look at the price stickers of the games that I had just purchased at Drexoll...

So clearly my advice to those shopping for board games in Vancouver is to check out prices and shop around. There is a big enough difference in prices to make a bit of extra travel worthwhile!


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Completely agree about the pricing at Drexoll. They have excellent selection and service, but their pricing is essentially MSRP.

That said, it's my observation that BGG types are not their target market - they're really aiming at the mass market consumer, and they have been very successful at it.
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Merric Blackman
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squash wrote:
I then went to Strategies and was absolutely blown away by the price difference with their games. For example, at Drexoll, Pirate's Cove had a price sticker of $62.99, whereas at Strategies it was $52. At Drexoll, StarCraft: The Board Game was $99.99, compared with $84 at Strategies. This is a MASSIVE difference! At Strategies, I didn't even want to look at the price stickers of the games that I had just purchased at Drexoll...

So clearly my advice to those shopping for board games in Vancouver is to check out prices and shop around. There is a big enough difference in prices to make a bit of extra travel worthwhile!
That doesn't seem so bad....

You have to understand: In Ballarat, the local game store had about a 50% mark-up on the stores in Melbourne. The winner for overpriced game went to World of Warcraft: the Boardgame. Regular australian cost: aus$110 or thereabouts. At this store, aus$200!

I think they've gotten better recently, but I do most of my game shopping in Melbourne these days.

Cheers,
Merric
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It still doesn't beat what I've seen here. I've seen one store selling Arkadia for 84$, while the MSRP is about 50$ and I've seen it at 40$ easilly.

Lord of the Ring (French version) 140$, it's still a bit too much, I think.

Objectif Catane (Starship Catan in French): 55$, bought it the very next day for 30$, MSRP around 40$.

Shall I go on? Worst part, is that they are downtown, but there is another store downtown as well who sells at reasonable prices.

Although, I've indicated mostly French titles (Arkadia excluded), the English ones have the same incredible price increase. Like the Canadian dollar is still at 0.60$ US....
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Which store offered the better experience? Which one are you raving so positively about at the start of your post?

Drexoll couldn't be what it is if it was a discount game store, so why try to criticize them for that?

I'll also point out that Mat likely gets paid more than those who work at Strategies, but I don't know that for certain. I do know that I actually make a living wage working at the game store I'm at, which most game store employees can't say.

I suppose I could work for minimum wage so that our store could sell you Pirate's Cove for $52. Would you rather I live on Ramen Noodles and no-name Ketchup?

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Sobriquet wrote:
Which store offered the better experience? Which one are you raving so positively about at the start of your post?
The purpose of my positive "raving" was so that I could start off on a positive note, present a balanced approach, and not just come out and start trash-talking Drexoll. I could have probably said an equal number of good things about Strategies. For example, the fellow working at Strategies was as equally helpful and friendly as Mat at Drexoll.

Basically, I was amazed that two stores that aren't too far distant from each other could have such vastly different prices (although from the replies so far, this is apparently not an uncommon issue, much to my surprise), and disappointed that I had already made most of my game purchases at the more expensive store.

I don't know why you feel the need to bash no-name ketchup. cool


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While the information you received in advance should have mentioned the price disparity - information is always good - I can't support criticizing a store for charging MSRP.
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apotheos wrote:
While the information you received in advance should have mentioned the price disparity - information is always good - I can't support criticizing a store for charging MSRP.
As a consumer, I actually have no idea what the MSRP is for any particular game. The only point of reference I have is the prices charged at various stores that I happen to check out. But I have rather a lack of experience in this regard too, since I faithfully support one particular shop with the vast majority of my game purchases.


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Pat T
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Living in Vancouver I feel I must comment on your experience at our game stores here.

I completely agree with you that Drexollgames has very high prices and does not do any discounting or loyal customer stuff that I know of. However, they do have lots of events and promote open gamming and even loan out games and stuff. For these reasons, plus one other, I will do 'some' of my game shopping at Drexoll.

Strategies is right in my neighbourhood, 10 minute walk away, but for some reason I just don't go there that often. Although I do think they have events and stuff.

Someone farther up in this thread mentioned that Drexoll had to have higher prices because they have a store front and gaming tables and schedule events etc, however, that is not quite true. Because ....

Just a 30 minute drive out of Vancouver brings you to Craving for a game that also has gaming tables, events, game rentals etc. This shop is also in a mall where, as I understand it, commercial rentals are scary. And, the best part is that the propriator gives loyal customers great discounts. That is, if you are in a gaming group you get a %20 discount. Although, Craving's prices are right up there with Drexolls, with the discount I am looking at prices similar to Strategies. And Craving has been know to stock hard-to-find-imported games! Just yesterday we drove out there to pick up Vikings (Drexoll didn't have it) and there was Um Reifenbreite! I was so shocked I bought it!

Anyhow, I'm blathering. I am sorry you made your purchases at the more expensive store. cry I really wish Drexoll would give loyal customer discounts, but they don't and it seems to be working for them.

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I'm a bit lost here....

You were buying games in Vancouver because.... you had tons of extra room in your carry-on bags? Or was it because there aren't any game stores in Toronto (I happen to know there are some nice stores not to far away in Kingston and Rochester if that's really the case).

Seems like the first store would be a cool place to hang out. Pricey sure - but is it really any different than getting a cup of joe at Starbucks vs McDonalds? Coffe is just as good (or better) at McD, but Starbucks gives you the coffee shop experience... and people GLADLY pay through the nose for that experience.
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Balthus_Dire wrote:
Yeah, price differences in the same town between game stores is pretty much par for the course. This is very true in Toronto as well, Josh, as you should know...at least when I lived there years ago, Sci-Fi world was at least 20% cheaper than anything at Silver Snail, just to name one difference.

I think the fact is that people develop deep loyalties, and that's why it doesn't matter so much to them. I mean, if you actually wanted the cheapest price, you wouldn't have been shopping in a FLGS at all--Starlit Citadel just outside of Vancouver would have mailed you whatever you bought at a fraction of the price you paid at Strategies--or any other FLGS in Canada.

Both are good stores, but Drexoll is much more established--it's the heart of the boardgaming community in Vancouver, I'd go so far as to say--Strategies being maybe only a year or so old. So Drexoll can afford to charge more without fear of losing customers.

I know I always shop at Drexoll because I know that they pay their staff well, they have massive selection, have open gaming tables every day (along with a hundred or so store copies of games to play), tournaments with prizes, events like the 24 hour gaming day, used board game auctions, boardgame promotion on the radio, etc. I'd hate to see the boardgaming scene in Vancouver without them.

In my mind, Strategies is hard pressed to compete with them, lower prices or no. They do seem to have the 40K and minis thing covered, and the fans that go with that though, so they may succeed yet in this tough market.
Thank you for taking the time to explain this to me in detail - I now have a much clearer understanding of the situation!
 
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moonglum01 wrote:
I'm a bit lost here....

You were buying games in Vancouver because.... you had tons of extra room in your carry-on bags?


Quite the opposite in fact! I wanted to buy a few games as gifts for my brother and his wife, who I was in Vancouver to visit, and my suitcases were already stuffed full of games that I had brought along to play with them. My last reply in this thread explains what happened and what exactly I purchased:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/346286


moonglum01 wrote:
Seems like the first store would be a cool place to hang out. Pricey sure - but is it really any different than getting a cup of joe at Starbucks vs McDonalds? Coffe is just as good (or better) at McD, but Starbucks gives you the coffee shop experience... and people GLADLY pay through the nose for that experience.
This is an excellent analogy! And Drexoll's does seem like a cool place to hang out.
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Patt wrote:

Just a 30 minute drive out of Vancouver brings you to Craving for a game that also has gaming tables, events, game rentals etc. This shop is also in a mall where, as I understand it, commercial rentals are scary. And, the best part is that the propriator gives loyal customers great discounts. That is, if you are in a gaming group you get a %20 discount. Although, Craving's prices are right up there with Drexolls, with the discount I am looking at prices similar to Strategies. And Craving has been know to stock hard-to-find-imported games! Just yesterday we drove out there to pick up Vikings (Drexoll didn't have it) and there was Um Reifenbreite! I was so shocked I bought it!
I gotta give Craving props too. That's where I first got into the gaming world outside of Toys R Us. But the proprietor doesn't give discounts to just loyal customers or part of a gaming group. Every time I have gone down there and bought a few things, he has always given me a discount of some sort or another.

But he is also very helpful and extremely pleasant to deal with. The place is well lit and well spaced out. Lots of gaming tables and many open games to "try before you buy". A HUGE selection of various games as well. I'm always amazed at what you can find there.

I too never know what is or isn't MSRP, but I just want to know I got good bang for my buck. At Craving I have never worried about that - I know I will get it.
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squash wrote:
I don't know why you feel the need to bash no-name ketchup. cool
Last I checked, the no-name stuff used glucose/fructose instead of liquid sugar -- it also had more sugar, and just didn't taste as good. But I'm picky about my ketchup

Back to the point, though, I understand that for a lot of people price will always be the deal breaker. Stores like Drexoll don't even pretend to cater to those people, so criticising them for it makes no sense.

Next time you're in Vancouver you should ask one of the owner/managers at Drexoll why their prices are higher than the competition. I gaurantee you that you get a long, thoughful answer that doesn't include "eh, we just figured we wanted to make a few extra bucks over the other guys".

There are tons of factors that drive up prices, so only using one factor (price) to determine where you buy seems rather unfair, don't you think?



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A store charging MSRP and offering helpful staff, a good store experience, and space for gaming sounds like exactly the kind of store I would buy from and support.
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Sobriquet wrote:
Last I checked, the no-name stuff used glucose/fructose instead of liquid sugar -- it also had more sugar, and just didn't taste as good. But I'm picky about my ketchup
Well you see, now I learned something useful in this thread! From now on, I'm going to have to check the sugar content in my ketchup.


Sobriquet wrote:
Back to the point, though, I understand that for a lot of people price will always be the deal breaker. Stores like Drexoll don't even pretend to cater to those people, so criticising them for it makes no sense...There are tons of factors that drive up prices, so only using one factor (price) to determine where you buy seems rather unfair, don't you think?
I'd like to think it makes sense, coming from an hourly-paid paramedic who is clueless about the ins and outs of the sales/retail world! I guess the fact is, you and I are coming from opposite ends of the spectrum (which is what makes this discussion so interesting and informative for me!) - I'm the consumer who wants my game purchasing cash to be spread over as many games as possible, and you're the one selling the games and wanting to make as much money as possible so you can purchase low-sugar, fancy-assed ketchup! Actually, I'm sure I'm simplifying both our point of views a little too much. The reality for me is, I make a point of faithfully supporting the closest game store to where I live with the vast majority of my game purchases, even if I could occasionally find a game for a few dollars less elsewhere.


Sobriquet wrote:
Next time you're in Vancouver you should ask one of the owner/managers at Drexoll why their prices are higher than the competition. I gaurantee you that you get a long, thoughful answer that doesn't include "eh, we just figured we wanted to make a few extra bucks over the other guys".
That's an excellent suggestion!

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If you're in Ottawa make sure you go to the two downtown shops. They're totally random in their pricing of games (at least in my experience). Take almost any two games and one each will be cheaper at both shops, it's odd, but thankfully they're within walking distance of each other.

Seriously, it totally depends which game you're looking for. Kind of a problem of too many riches I guess.
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MerricB wrote:
That doesn't seem so bad....

You have to understand: In Ballarat, the local game store had about a 50% mark-up on the stores in Melbourne. The winner for overpriced game went to World of Warcraft: the Boardgame. Regular australian cost: aus$110 or thereabouts. At this store, aus$200!

I think they've gotten better recently, but I do most of my game shopping in Melbourne these days.

Cheers,
Merric
And I picked up mine for AU$50!

Merric, how on Earth did you find yourself on a Canadian thread, eh?

Well, to the point:

So, who from Vancouver wants to do some shopping for me?

I'm looking at picking up some wargames, specifically stuff that is hard/impossible to find in Australia. I'd need the games 'delivered' to Main and 44th.

Is it worthwile me getting someone to shop for me or would it be cheaper just to mail order from the States?
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GeneSteeler wrote:
MerricB wrote:
That doesn't seem so bad....

You have to understand: In Ballarat, the local game store had about a 50% mark-up on the stores in Melbourne. The winner for overpriced game went to World of Warcraft: the Boardgame. Regular australian cost: aus$110 or thereabouts. At this store, aus$200!

I think they've gotten better recently, but I do most of my game shopping in Melbourne these days.

Cheers,
Merric
And I picked up mine for AU$50!

Merric, how on Earth did you find yourself on a Canadian thread, eh?

Well, to the point:

So, who from Vancouver wants to do some shopping for me?

I'm looking at picking up some wargames, specifically stuff that is hard/impossible to find in Australia. I'd need the games 'delivered' to Main and 44th.

Is it worthwile me getting someone to shop for me or would it be cheaper just to mail order from the States?
I'd LOVE to make another trip to Australia and deliver some wargames for you! Unfortunately, the cost of traveling there is rather prohibitive!
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squash wrote:

I'd LOVE to make another trip to Australia and deliver some wargames for you! Unfortunately, the cost of traveling there is rather prohibitive!


Only need them delivered to Main & 44th. My folks can take them the rest of the way!
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Pat T
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I would be willing to do that for you. I live quite near Main & 44th. How would you go about shopping? I know http://www.starlitcitadel.com/games/ has an order online and pick up in person service. However, I'm not sure if they have wargames.

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Patt wrote:
I would be willing to do that for you. I live quite near Main & 44th. How would you go about shopping? I know http://www.starlitcitadel.com/games/ has an order online and pick up in person service. However, I'm not sure if they have wargames.

Thanks for the offer and link. It'll take some investigation for me to figure out what's "worth it" and what I can get there but not here.

In some respects there is no "rush" as the "trip" won't be until after Christmas.

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GeneSteeler wrote:
Patt wrote:
I would be willing to do that for you. I live quite near Main & 44th. How would you go about shopping? I know http://www.starlitcitadel.com/games/ has an order online and pick up in person service. However, I'm not sure if they have wargames.

Thanks for the offer and link. It'll take some investigation for me to figure out what's "worth it" and what I can get there but not here.

In some respects there is no "rush" as the "trip" won't be until after Christmas.

No problem. When ever your are ready. Also, be aware, that this store may want to see the credit card that made the purchase when the order gets picked up. I am pretty sure a couple emails back and forth will get that detail ironed out. Geekmail me when and if.
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Patt wrote:
I would be willing to do that for you. I live quite near Main & 44th. How would you go about shopping? I know http://www.starlitcitadel.com/games/ has an order online and pick up in person service. However, I'm not sure if they have wargames.

We currently don't have a huge stock of wargames, just the common Axis/Memoir/Battlelore and some GMT games. Its an area we have been discussing expanding on, but haven't been sure about the demand in Canada.

If there are specific games you are looking for, you can always e-mail us and we are happy to bring the games in for you.

Tao
www.starlitcitadel.com
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2 more Vancouver gaming stores:

http://www.imperialhobbies.ca/

(sometime they have 25% off discount, e.g. last year Christmas and this year Aug, check their live Event Calendar! It saves extra more $$)


http://www.spectrumretail.com/connectshop/

I found out in general the games are cheapest in Starlit Citadel

http://www.starlitcitadel.com/games/index.php

but their pickup location is far away (Delta) and the pickup time is only Mon-Fri 10am - 3.30pm, well, it's not very convenience unless we don't have to work in the weekday.

Couple weeks ago I have done some research to compare the game WEB price tags in the Vancouver stores. Hope it can give you some idea (PLEASE note that the price quoted here is NOT up-to-dated and could be different from the current price offered by the stores)

Power Grid
===========
Connect $41.52
Imperial $39.95
Starlit $33.95
Drexoll $49.99

Cuba
====
Connect $54.46
Imperial n/a
Starlit $44.95
Drexoll $59.99

Puerto Rico
===========
Connect $42.86
Imperial $41.95
Starlit $33.95
Drexoll $47.99

Stone Age
=========
Connect $40.85
Imperial $39.95
Starlit $34.95
Drexoll n/a

Settler of Catan
================
Connect $41.74
Imperial $39.95
Starlit $29.95
Drexoll $42.99

Agricola
========
Connect $67.86
Imperial $63.95
Starlit $54.95
Drexoll n/a

Pandemic
========
Connect $32.59
Imperial $29.95
Starlit $27.95
Drexoll n/a

Oregon
======
Connect n/a
Imperial $34.95
Starlit $29.95
Drexoll $42.99

The Pillars of the Earth
========================
Connect $45.76
Imperial $59
Starlit $34.95
Drexoll $51.99

The First Settlers of Catan
===========================
Connect $53.76?
Imperial $65
Starlit $37.95
Drexoll $51.99

Elasund:the First City
======================
Connect n/a
Imperial $59
Starlit $34.95
Drexoll $59.99
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