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Subject: Election Day (2 day) Math Trade - OLWLG - Want Lists Due by 10pm Eastern Thursday rss

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Jeff Michaud
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Important!
for this math trade want lists will be submitted only by using the online wantlist generator/editor ... you may want to make sure you can login to that tool (no password required) if you haven't already.

Also Very Important!
You must read the Limits & Rules below before joining in on this math trade!


To add items to this math trade add them to the geeklist http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/36349

"Election Day" refers to election day in the USA (Nov. 4). Obviously we are going a little past election day as well. Don't forget to go out and vote today! (congrats to all who voted no matter who you voted for, I think it was record voter turnout)

Related (Discussion) Forum Thread: this is it

Deadlines:
Submissions (including sweeteners): Wednesday, November 5th, 10:00pm Eastern Time
Want lists due: Thursday, November 6th, 10:00pm Eastern Time
Results posted: Thursday, November 6th, about 11:00pm Eastern Time

Limits: (per person)
* Max of 4 non-game items (that includes geek gold, gift certificates, etc)
* Geekgold offerings must be at least 60 GG

Rules:
1. * Non-game items must be added as "Outside the Scope of BGG" (game id 23953) or "Miscellaneous Game Accessory" (game id 5985), and you must within (at the bottom) of the item description put a "+altname+ Short Name Here -altname-" (minus the quotes) where "Short Name Here" for example would be "125 Geek Gold", or "$40 ThoughtHammer Gift Card", etc.

2. * "sweeteners" are to be listed using either the GAMEID formatting (prefered, example Hansa) or a link to the game's page (this will look like http://www.boardgamegeek.com/game/8989). If you don't use this format your sweeteners won't show up in the OLWLG properly.

3. * You must accurately describe your game's condition, language, edition, etc. If you do not then the condition will be assumed to be "like new" and complete, English language version. Do not simply say "as pictured" as it's not always obvious. When in doubt though, folks should post a comment to the item and/or geekmail the item's owner with questions.

3.5. * For games not brand new (in shrink) you must inventory the game's components and list anything missing. Do not assume it's complete (I've been on the receiving end 2 or 3 times thus far where the owner assumed and it wasn't)

3.6. * If the game and/or expansion you are listing is a "Print & Play" make that clear in the description (and I recommend you give specifics what it was printed on, mounted on, etc).

3.7. * If you are listing an expansion if you reference the base game in the description be clear one way or the other if you are including the base game or not.

4. * Traders from all countries are allowed.

5. * Specify your restrictions on shipping in your listing. If you don't it will be assumed you'll ship worlwide for free. (Note: if you list "mirror" shipping, or a limit to how much you will be pay toward the shipping, then you must state where you would be shipping from (zipcode for USA locations).

6. * If you are offering games that you do not have in your possession (ie. that you'll order and have shipped from an online retailer if it trades), you must state in your description that is what you are doing.

7. * No Geek-gold or Gift certificate arbitrage... that means you are not allowed to attempt to trade your geekgold for someone elses geekgold offering, or attempt to trade your gift certificate for someone elses gift certificate offering+++. However attempting to trade geekgold for a gift certificate or vice versa is allowed.

8. * I reserve the right to remove games from the list for whatever reason (though unlikely). If you are on the bad traders list, your games will be removed

9. * Use this forum thread for questions & discussions of this math trade (though for questions on individual items as those as comments to the specific geeklist item)

If you are unfamiliar with math trades, please read the BGG wiki page at http://www.boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/Math_Trades

By posting an entry on this list, you agree to abide both by the general math trade guidelines and by those specific to this math trade.

Trade Resolver: TradeMaximizer (trying to maximize number of trades)
* Duplicate Protection
* NO Priorities
* SEED=1234567
* ITERATIONS=100
* METRIC=USERS-TRADING
Important Note: requires special version of TradeMax (pointer to which will be provided)

Note: only errors by the moderator will invalidate the results.

Note: in the case that there is a problem after the results are posted, at most it will only invalidate the affected trade chain(s) and not the entire results set. In addition if the problem can be resolved by the most directly affected party or parties, then that is perfectly acceptable.

Note: you can start putting together your want list(s) immediately, even before you enter your own items into the math trade
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Jeff Michaud
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Some Q&A
Q: Where can I find this special version of TradeMaximizer?
A: http://isomerica.net/~jeff/tm.jar
Note: this was compiled against JDK 1.5, apparently compiling w/JDK 1.6 and trying to run with JRE 1.5 gives a version skew exception. Also sources are included inside the jar

Q: why no priorities in this MT?
A: because they are not compatible with the metric we are using. That also means it does not matter how you order your wants (not that ordering them had much effect for most anyway, TradeMax will always use whatever wants will maximize the number of trades)

Q: where is the "request" geeklist?
A: there isn't one... on the OLWLG home page for this math trade use the "statistics" link/page to see the list of games most wanted by those in this math trade but are not currently being offered

Q: what if I want to change my offering (downgrade), such as remove or change the item or sweetener(s), or make the shipping more restrictive, or discover the condition of the game(s) are worse than I originally stated?
A: edit the geeklist item for your lot and change the game id to 23953 (which is outside the scope of BGG) and replace the item description with:
+altname+ Item withdrawn/relisted -altname-
and then do just that, add a new item (bundle). and obviously submit a blank list for the old withdrawn item.
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Jeff Michaud
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How to Submit Want Lists
In step 4 of the OLWLG click on the tab "How to Submit Your Lists", review the summary, and then click on the button "Submit My Wants".

You can submit and resubmit as often as you like up until the deadline.

Remember the deadline is Thursday (tonight by the time you are probably reading this) by 10pm EASTERN Time... (that's 7pm Pacific). No extensions.

In addition to the OLWLG thread, for help with the OLWLG see also:

Steve's geeklist w/images on general use of the OLWLG
Chris's geeklist w/images on duplicate protection
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Jeff Michaud
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Results
Note: the following results summary and the official results in TradeMax have both been updated to remove a 7 item trade chain. The rest can ship!

Summary with hyperlinks into trade manager:
http://activityclub.org/bgg/36349-results-summary.html

List of most wanted and unwanted items:
http://activityclub.org/bgg/36349-mostwanted.txt

Official results in TradeMax output format:
http://activityclub.org/bgg/36349-results-official.txt

To see the actual raw wants visit the OLWLG home page and look for the WANTS link after this MT.

Very low trade rate...

Num trades = 90 of 872 items (10.3%) 83 of 872 items
Num groups = 9
Group sizes = 37 24 7 6 4 4 3 3 2

and the 2nd math trade in a row that I run that I'm shut out of (no trades)!
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Jeff Michaud
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I will not rest until Biblios is in the Top 100. - Steve Oksienik
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Well I been watchin' while you been coughin, I've been drinking life while you've been nauseous, and so I drink to health while you kill yourself and I got just one thing that I can offer... Go on and save yourself and take it out on me
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Re: Election Day (2 day) Math Trade - OLWLG - Don't forget to go out and vote today!
Thanks Jeff. Great timing as the other MT going off holds no interest for me at all. These short ones are tremendously fun and offer instant gratification.
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Scott S.
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Re: Election Day (2 day) Math Trade - OLWLG - Don't forget to go out and vote today!
I didn't see this in the math trade announcements thread. Don't forget to add it if you haven't already.
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John-Paul Pizzica
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Re: Election Day (2 day) Math Trade - OLWLG - Don't forget to go out and vote today!
Thanks for the quick MT, Jeff...always a fun time!
 
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Utah BGGer
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Re: Election Day (2 day) Math Trade - OLWLG - Don't forget to go out and vote today!
2 math trades for November! Woo hoo!
 
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Jeff Michaud
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Election Day (2 day) Math Trade - Make sure you read rule #5 folks!
I'm seeing what appears to be lots of folks aren't reading the rules or at least not all of rule #5 , which is:

5. * Specify your restrictions on shipping in your listing. If you don't it will be assumed you'll ship worlwide for free. (Note: if you list "mirror" shipping, or a limit to how much you will be pay toward the shipping, then you must state where you would be shipping from (zipcode for USA locations).

I do NOT want anyone to be surprised when the results show they receive an item and it turns out that it's being shipped Internationally and hence what they thought the sender was paying toward the shipping would cover the costs if it was being shipped domestically, that they end up being on the line to contribute toward the shipping....

... for example, in my last math trade (spread the happiness) someone just let me know they still haven't received an item (a copy of Ingenious) coming from Canada (to the USA) and that the sender said they'd cover the first $10 (I assume US$ not CAN$, another potential issue) but it ended up costing $15 to the receiver sent the sender $5.

Consider this part of full disclosure!

edit: I may also have the OLWLG submit blank lists for items that violate that part of rule #5.

Another shipping related warning
Another item, while not addressed explicitly in the rules, you should make sure your shipping policy is not ambiguous... such as "Free shipping to the U.S. or Canada." and not mentioning any restrictions... it's clear if you say this that within the USA and Canada you are paying for the shipping, but it doesn't say you will only ship within the USA and Canada which may mean you will ship everywhere else, just not stated if you will ship for free to them as well or only covert part (or none) of the shipping elsehwhere.

It's why myself I now say "I will only ship to XXXX, but to which I'll cover the shipping".
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Lou Seelbach
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Re: Election Day (2 day) Math Trade - OLWLG - Don't forget to go out and vote today!
I voted! Looks like I'll have to participate in this MT.
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Andrew Tullsen
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Re: Election Day (2 day) Math Trade - OLWLG - Don't forget to go out and vote today!
Again, If I get a trade, I'll tip the moderator and the maker of the OLWLG 5 GG each.
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Nathan Trimmer
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Re: Election Day (2 day) Math Trade - OLWLG - Don't forget to go out and vote today!
JeffyJeff wrote:
Another item, while not addressed explicitly in the rules, you should make sure your shipping policy is not ambiguous... such as "Free shipping to the U.S. or Canada." and not mentioning any restrictions... it's clear if you say this that within the USA and Canada you are paying for the shipping, but it doesn't say you will only ship within the USA and Canada which may mean you will ship everywhere else, just not stated if you will ship for free to them as well or only covert part (or none) of the shipping elsehwhere.

It's why myself I now say "I will only ship to XXXX, but to which I'll cover the shipping".
I know this became an issue during the previous math trade, and I'm guilty of simply saying "Free shipping to US and Can". I'll be sure to make a correction to my shipping information. Before doing that though, there's one thing I'd like to check up on. I received an email about the possibility of a one-on-one trade for an item that's part of my small games lot. Would there be any objections to simply swapping out the game in question for something else?

Thanks!

-Nate
 
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Joe Huber

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Re: Election Day (2 day) Math Trade - OLWLG - Don't forget to go out and vote today!
Jeff,

JeffyJeff wrote:
I'm seeing what appears to be lots of folks aren't reading the rules or at least not all of rule #5 , which is:

5. * Specify your restrictions on shipping in your listing. If you don't it will be assumed you'll ship worlwide for free. (Note: if you list "mirror" shipping, or a limit to how much you will be pay toward the shipping, then you must state where you would be shipping from (zipcode for USA locations).

I do NOT want anyone to be surprised when the results show they receive an item and it turns out that it's being shipped Internationally and hence what they thought the sender was paying toward the shipping would cover the costs if it was being shipped domestically, that they end up being on the line to contribute toward the shipping....

... for example, in my last math trade (spread the happiness) someone just let me know they still haven't received an item (a copy of Ingenious) coming from Canada (to the USA) and that the sender said they'd cover the first $10 (I assume US$ not CAN$, another potential issue) but it ended up costing $15 to the receiver sent the sender $5.

Consider this part of full disclosure!

edit: I may also have the OLWLG submit blank lists for items that violate that part of rule #5.
While the cost for international shipping does vary from some countries (including from Canada to the US), the cost for mailing internationally from the United States via USPS (recommended) is fixed, regardless of where the package is mailed from.

Since I don't charge for shipping within the US (where the source Zip Code can make a significant difference, regardless of the service used), I have never specified the source (other than that it's in the US). This does violate the rule as currently stated - even though it doesn't matter, since just knowing that a package is coming from the US is sufficient for those from any other country to estimate the weight and calculate the postage.

So - am I going to see my want lists blanked?
 
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Re: Election Day (2 day) Math Trade - OLWLG - Deadline to add Items is 10pm Eastern TONIGHT
kidsplinter wrote:
JeffyJeff wrote:
Another item, while not addressed explicitly in the rules, you should make sure your shipping policy is not ambiguous... such as "Free shipping to the U.S. or Canada." and not mentioning any restrictions... it's clear if you say this that within the USA and Canada you are paying for the shipping, but it doesn't say you will only ship within the USA and Canada which may mean you will ship everywhere else, just not stated if you will ship for free to them as well or only covert part (or none) of the shipping elsehwhere.

It's why myself I now say "I will only ship to XXXX, but to which I'll cover the shipping".
I know this became an issue during the previous math trade, and I'm guilty of simply saying "Free shipping to US and Can". I'll be sure to make a correction to my shipping information. Before doing that though, there's one thing I'd like to check up on. I received an email about the possibility of a one-on-one trade for an item that's part of my small games lot. Would there be any objections to simply swapping out the game in question for something else?

Thanks!

-Nate
99% of the MT participants would not care. However, you are virtually guaranteed to end up having somebody in the 1% win your lot and it will be an issue.
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Jeff Michaud
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Re: Election Day (2 day) Math Trade - OLWLG - Deadline to add Items is 10pm Eastern TONIGHT
kidsplinter wrote:
there's one thing I'd like to check up on. I received an email about the possibility of a one-on-one trade for an item that's part of my small games lot. Would there be any objections to simply swapping out the game in question for something else?
The problem with changing an offer like that is that folks could have already "added" your lot to their want lists and may very well not notice your change.

So I suggest one of two things:

1. wait until after the math trade and if the lot (bundle) doesn't trade then make your 1-on-1 trade. This is a short time frame math trade, it will be over in less than 36 hours.

2. edit the geeklist item for your lot and change the game id to 23953 (which is outside the scope of BGG) and replace the item description with:

+altname+ Item withdrawn/relisted -altname-

and then do just that, add a new item (bundle). and obviously submit a blank list for the old withdrawn item.
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Nathan Trimmer
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Re: Election Day (2 day) Math Trade - OLWLG - Deadline to add Items is 10pm Eastern TONIGHT
RoamDog wrote:
99% of the MT participants would not care. However, you are virtually guaranteed to end up having somebody in the 1% win your lot and it will be an issue.
That's exactly what I'm worried about... shake

-Nate
 
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Jeff Michaud
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Re: Election Day (2 day) Math Trade - OLWLG - Deadline to add Items is 10pm Eastern TONIGHT
huber wrote:
While the cost for international shipping does vary from some countries (including from Canada to the US), the cost for mailing internationally from the United States via USPS (recommended) is fixed, regardless of where the package is mailed from.

Since I don't charge for shipping within the US (where the source Zip Code can make a significant difference, regardless of the service used), I have never specified the source (other than that it's in the US). This does violate the rule as currently stated - even though it doesn't matter, since just knowing that a package is coming from the US is sufficient for those from any other country to estimate the weight and calculate the postage.

So - am I going to see my want lists blanked?
I did not want to make the rule wordier than it already is, but it's the "intent" that matters, not the "letter" of it. Ie. zipcode is only intended to be required if you are not paying for the full shipping within the USA. For International as long as it's clear which country the item would be shipped from it's ok. Ie. "will ship within USA for free, first $xx to anywhere else", I think it's clear enough it will be shipped from the USA even though not explicitly stated.
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Nathan Trimmer
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Re: Election Day (2 day) Math Trade - OLWLG - Deadline to add Items is 10pm Eastern TONIGHT
JeffyJeff wrote:
The problem with changing an offer like that is that folks could have already "added" your lot to their want lists and may very well not notice your change.

So I suggest one of two things:

2. edit the geeklist item for your lot and change the game id to 23953 (which is outside the scope of BGG) and replace the item description with:

+altname+ Item withdrawn/relisted -altname-

and then do just that, add a new item (bundle). and obviously submit a blank list for the old withdrawn item.
Thanks, Jeff! I think I'll go ahead and blank out the original listing and add a new one. Golly. This is the second math trade in a row where this has happened to me.
 
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Paul O
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Re: Election Day (2 day) Math Trade - OLWLG - Deadline to add Items is 10pm Eastern TONIGHT
Note that I'd edited my entry for item #218 (Empire Builder & British Rails). The condition of the game is considerably poorer than originally stated. I offered a new and more accurate description of game condition and changed my shipping to free worldwide shipping.

thanks.
 
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Jeff Michaud
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Re: Election Day (2 day) Math Trade - OLWLG - Deadline to add Items is 10pm Eastern TONIGHT
goldenboat wrote:
Note that I'd edited my entry for item #218 (Empire Builder & British Rails). The condition of the game is considerably poorer than originally stated. I offered a new and more accurate description of game condition and changed my shipping to free worldwide shipping.
This is the same situation as Nat above... there is no requirement that folks read this thread, and I know for a fact lots of folks do not follow a math trade's discussion thread...

so someone could have already added your item to their want list(s) and not notice you downgraded your offering (it's another story if an offering is improved, no one will get upset if it's better than originally advertised).

Please either submit a blank want list or do as stated in option 2 listed above, ie:

2. edit the geeklist item for your lot and change the game id to 23953 (which is outside the scope of BGG) and replace the item description with:

+altname+ Item withdrawn/relisted -altname-

and then do just that, add a new item (bundle). and obviously submit a blank list for the old withdrawn item.
 
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Re: Election Day (2 day) Math Trade - OLWLG - Deadline to add Items is 10pm Eastern TONIGHT
JeffyJeff wrote:
goldenboat wrote:
Note that I'd edited my entry for item #218 (Empire Builder & British Rails). The condition of the game is considerably poorer than originally stated. I offered a new and more accurate description of game condition and changed my shipping to free worldwide shipping.
This is the same situation as Nat above... there is no requirement that folks read this thread, and I know for a fact lots of folks do not follow a math trade's discussion thread...

so someone could have already added your item to their want list(s) and not notice you downgraded your offering (it's another story if an offering is improved, no one will get upset if it's better than originally advertised).

Please either submit a blank want list or do as stated in option 2 listed above, ie:

2. edit the geeklist item for your lot and change the game id to 23953 (which is outside the scope of BGG) and replace the item description with:

+altname+ Item withdrawn/relisted -altname-

and then do just that, add a new item (bundle). and obviously submit a blank list for the old withdrawn item.
I'll submit a blank want list for this item.

If anyone is interested in this bundle, contact me directly. Thanks.
 
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Eric Snider
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I forgot to add the altname to one of my listings. I can't edit any more. Is there some way to get my altname in there? It's item #702 "World of Goo" and "Oasis" for Windows. +altname+ World of Goo and Oasis, new, for Windows -altname-
 
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weasel wrote:
I forgot to add the altname to one of my listings. I can't edit any more. Is there some way to get my altname in there? It's item #702 "World of Goo" and "Oasis" for Windows. +altname+ World of Goo and Oasis, new, for Windows -altname-
Too late Final snapshot was taken a couple minutes after the deadline, summary generated and loaded, and online submissions turned on. Three (3) folks have already submitted lists!

For anyone who doesn't know how to submit via the OLWLG please see http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/2789319#2789319
 
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Why are the items on my wish list not showing up in the right color for me in OLWLG?
 
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