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Subject: Continental US Math Trade: official results - 311 items trading rss

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Andrew Tullsen
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Re: Continental US Math Trade: now open for submissions
shieldwolf wrote:
Is it better to edit condition or delete an item and re-list if the item has changed? I just had a box destroyed (long story) game is still pristine, but the box is DOA.
You should relist, as people don't go back to check on all the items if they have added them already in the OLWLG. So yes, definitely relist.
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Re: Continental US Math Trade: now open for submissions
shieldwolf wrote:
Is it better to edit condition or delete an item and re-list if the item has changed? I just had a box destroyed (long story) game is still pristine, but the box is DOA.
I think the general rule for edits is as follows:

1) If the edit improves the quality/value of a listing, you do not need to re-list the item. (ie. Add sweeteners, increase GG amount, improve shipping coverage, etc)

2) If the edit would decrease the quality/value of the listing, you should edit the original posting (blank it out, strikethrough, and/or note that you will be submitting a blank want this for the item and it has been re-listed) and then re-list the item with the updated information. DO NOT DELETE the original item.
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player's copy Re: Continental US Math Trade: now open for submissions
rgatti wrote:
... "player's copy" just feels like it leaves a lot of room to hide damage/defects in a more attractive label.
Exactly what I was concerned about but trying to be PC I think lots of folks don't know what "player's copy" implies (I certainly didn't until after I started math trading)... and there doesn't appear to be any sort of official definition after I just did some google searches (in fact it seems to mean something completely different).

Looks like something else I should add to my MT rules boilerplate (a term with a more official definition) that stating "player's copy" is not a substitute for stating the item's condition.
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Re: Continental US Math Trade: now open for submissions
Just a reminder... OLWLG's "altname" tag only recognized on non-specific bgg game id's (outside the scope of BGG, misc. game acc., etc... see OLWLG wiki for full list recognized).

In addition see the rules and/or OLWLG for how to add "sweeteners" (create a bundle). Looks like at least a couple cases of altname trying to be used on real game id's is because they are trying to get an improperly (so the OLWLG doesn't recognize it as such) listed sweetener to show up with the main game in the item's title (a properly listed sweetener will be automatically, not in the main item's title, but shows up clearly in both step 3 and 4)
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Re: Continental US Math Trade: now open for submissions
I'm not sure what "well-played" means, either. I'm pretty surprised by the number of new math traders in this one. I wonder if the shipping restriction is the incentive. Sure makes things easier! But, I'm also a little nervous that someone will mess up their submission and we'll have a results controversy. From the look of the game descriptions for some (or lack thereof), I'm not real confident that all of the rules and warnings are being absorbed...
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Re: Continental US Math Trade: now open for submissions
joewyka wrote:
I'm not sure what "well-played" means, either. I'm pretty surprised by the number of new math traders in this one. I wonder if the shipping restriction is the incentive. Sure makes things easier! But, I'm also a little nervous that someone will mess up their submission and we'll have a results controversy. From the look of the game descriptions for some (or lack thereof), I'm not real confident that all of the rules and warnings are being absorbed...
These are my concerns as well... I think it may also be partly the the rules are written to imply more that they are "suggestions" than hard requirements. It's why in my rules boilerplate I've for a while switched to using words like "must" (see http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/353099 ... I use the word "must" 8 times). Because everyone is a gamer the rules need to be written as such

I have thought about running a MT where the listings need to use a template/form that you cut/paste and fill in but figure compliance would be even less Someday I'll add support to the OLWLG for adding items directly (bypassing geeklist) that will force folks to specify some information. I could kind of do that with the "add games" OLWLG script with appropriate additions and then make that a requirement... but only so much time....
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Re: Continental US Math Trade: now open for submissions
Definitely some dodgy descriptions in this trade. I'm not sure how to take something like "Obviously Played" as that could mean...so much.


"Hey look, the decks have all been put together and shuffled, and the rules have been handled. This is obviously played."

"Hey look, someone tossed everything in this ragged box like a dog's breakfast. This is obviously played."


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Re: Continental US Math Trade: now open for submissions
Also folks make sure you IVENTORY any games that are not new in original shrink... I'm now up to at least 4 times I've received games with missing components (this now is higher than the number of times the games reaked of stale cancer stick or cigar/pipe smoke). Even when the lister said "complete" (which is assumed anyway).

Do NOT assume that ...

* when you bought it new originally that the publisher wouldn't have short you

* that you did inventory it at one point in time and it was complete then even though you've played it since that point

* that you received it in trade from someone else who said it was complete, now this is just hearsay when you say it's complete

I also sometimes question when the listing says "in shrink" and doesn't say "new"... I just remember the last time I played a game at a local game store, they took the game off the shelf, and later on when I went to use the restroom saw shrink wrap equipment in their office...
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Re: Continental US Math Trade: now open for submissions
I've never heard so many concerns about condition listings in a MT discussion before.

What is prompting it? I apologize that I haven't been privy to the start of this discussion, but I did read the geekmail, and wondered what led to it.


That said, yeah, missing parts are an issue. Especially missing box inserts (which is a big peeve) and other less obvious missing parts.

Careless listings are also a problem. Last MT a user listed "animeeples" and had a picture of the REAL Z-Man animeeples, but only later (after I asked) clarified that they were Mayday Farm Animals (and not animeeples).

I would not have listed them if I had gone back at the last moment to check that, and it was my fault for being careless.

But, the listing said, "as shown" which apparently meant spilled out of a ziploc baggie and not NEW as the listing seemed to indicate elsewhere. So they were shipped (Mayday Farm Animals) in a generic ziploc baggie, unsorted, and shipped in a bubble mailer.

That didn't provide protection for them, so they were ground up a bit in shipping, and the sheep had accumulated black marks and brown marks from the boar and cattle bits.

Since I didn't want the Mayday animeeples, and that part was sortof my mistake, I didn't make an issue of the shoddy packaging, the misleading listing otherwise, and the carelessness of the whole deal on their end.

That said, is the cause for all of this the fact that so many noobs are trading in MTs now? It seems to be the case, because the vets seem to list things with sufficient detail and make the effort to do the little things which make these things excellent trades.

But we may need to educate some noobs as to protocol on more levels than otherwise.
 
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Re: Continental US Math Trade: now open for submissions
I have some basic questions about trading and how to go about it so as to maximize my chances (at least, to feel pretty good that I've set it up correctly!). How is the actual trade calculated - is it one-for-one, or does it work on other factors? I'm wondering if it's better to list games singly, or to bundle?

If trading is essentially one-for-one, then my five $10 titles will not equate to someone else's single $50 game, so am I more likely to get a good trade by listing something else in a similar desirability/price range?

If instead I bundle them to increase their total apparent value, I take a chance that a potential trade may still fail since the other person may already have one or more of the bundled titles, or may have tried them and disliked some.

I'm curious if there's anything I should be thinking of, that I may not have considered.

James
 
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Re: Continental US Math Trade: now open for submissions
jhebert wrote:
I have some basic questions about trading and how to go about it so as to maximize my chances (at least, to feel pretty good that I've set it up correctly!). How is the actual trade calculated - is it one-for-one, or does it work on other factors? I'm wondering if it's better to list games singly, or to bundle?
You really want to make sure to read the wiki...

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/Math_Trades

but quick answer... each geeklist item can only trade for 1 other geeklist item (if it trades at all)

How the actual trade is "calculated"... see the other wiki

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/TradeMaximizer

that is the tool that will actualy calculate it...

Jeff
 
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Re: Continental US Math Trade: now open for submissions
diehard4life wrote:
I've never heard so many concerns about condition listings in a MT discussion before.

What is prompting it? I apologize that I haven't been privy to the start of this discussion, but I did read the geekmail, and wondered what led to it.
I think like all things that snowball into larger issues in these discussion threads, it really only took a minor comment about an isolated issue. Plus, I don't think we've discussed this issue at length (at least, not recently), so it was a good change of pace from the usual pre-trade banter. (And, hopefully, helpful to at least a few people.)
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Re: Continental US Math Trade: now open for submissions
rgatti wrote:
I think like all things that snowball into larger issues in these discussion threads, it really only took a minor comment about an isolated issue.
I disagree.... for some reason it's not an isolated minor issue... there has been an unusual amount of items in this MT that have not been listing the edition/language as well as items using vauge references to condition and/or simply say "as pictured". Part of it are the newbies, which of course we are glad to have, need that fresh blood , but some of it is coming from vetrans....
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Re: Continental US Math Trade: now open for submissions
JeffyJeff wrote:
rgatti wrote:
I think like all things that snowball into larger issues in these discussion threads, it really only took a minor comment about an isolated issue.
I disagree.... for some reason it's not an isolated minor issue... there has been an unusual amount of items in this MT that have not been listing the edition/language as well as items using vauge references to condition and/or simply say "as pictured". Part of it are the newbies, which of course we are glad to have, need that fresh blood , but some of it is coming from vetrans....
Oh? Maybe there is more than normal. I guess I hadn't noticed. It seems like a fair percentage of people just see "Math Trade" and gloss over the rules, as normal. Without shipping restrictions, I guess the other stuff just stands out more.

In most math trades, I look at shipping restrictions and then in shrink or not. Quality only comes into play when significant damage (or "player's copy") is noted, but even then, only after shipping restrictions/costs.

Now and then, it's hard to figure out what edition/language some games are, even when they say "as pictured" (not just because I primarily only use the OLWLG to add things, but also because some cover pictures aren't significantly different between versions/languages.).
 
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Re: Continental US Math Trade: now open for submissions
I expect this is a non-issue, but just in case....

One of the cells in my Step 4 table on the OLWLG is highlighted in yellow.

If I toggle it 'on' and confirm the change, the yellow goes away, and comes back when I toggle the cell 'off'. Other cells don't behave this way.

JeffyJeff - if you think this warrants looking into, you have my permission to check all my info/wantlists/etc on the OLWLG.
 
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Re: Continental US Math Trade: now open for submissions
This is actually there to help you. If you notice, the preceding cell is checked. The yellow is to show you where you have "gaps", in case those are unintentional.

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Re: Continental US Math Trade: now open for submissions
anglotiger wrote:
This is actually there to help you. If you notice, the preceding cell is checked. The yellow is to show you where you have "gaps", in case those are unintentional.

Ah. That's it. I thought it might be a feature, but couldn't figure out what was special about that cell. Thanks Jack!
 
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Re: Continental US Math Trade: now open for submissions
Boomer or JeffyJeff (so many Jeffs - I need to be specific), is there any chance of a resynch in the OLWLG? There hasn't been once since early yesterday.

Just done I see - thanks...
 
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OLWLG "Help" wiki page.... Re: Continental US Math Trade: now open for submissions
anglotiger wrote:
This is actually there to help you. If you notice, the preceding cell is checked. The yellow is to show you where you have "gaps", in case those are unintentional.
And speaking of "help"... I spent a fair amount of time updating the OLWLG documentation and turning it into a wiki page... that's what the "help" link on the OLWLG pages link to....

The answer to the "yellow" box question is given under the heading "Frequently Asked Questions" sub bullet "Yellow boxes in step 4?"
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Re: Continental US Math Trade: now open for submissions
Hi all, I'm still relatively new to math trading and I had a somewhat stupid question on all of the "non-standard" gift certificates being offered (i.e., not $10, $25, $50, $100, etc.) Is there a list of online stores that will allow these to be purchased? That would be very useful. Off the top of my head, I've only seen Funagain and Coolstuffinc that will let an arbitrary amount be purchased. It looks like Boulder, Thoughthammer, Boards and Bits only offer the "standard" denominations. Thanks for the help.
 
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Re: Continental US Math Trade: now open for submissions
leungd wrote:
Boulder, Thoughthammer, Boards and Bits only offer the "standard"
I believe most boardgame outlets advertised here on BGG are very accommodating with GC requests. Tom of BoardsandBits have created customized GC for me before.

Thanks.

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Re: Continental US Math Trade: now open for submissions
leungd wrote:
It looks like Boulder, Thoughthammer, Boards and Bits only offer the "standard" denominations.
I know at least for ThoughtHammer when you buy a GC you are simply adding to your GC balance... then you can send any amount you want to someone (you just may still have a balance left over after). Maybe it's the same at the others?
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Re: Continental US Math Trade: now open for submissions
JeffyJeff wrote:
leungd wrote:
It looks like Boulder, Thoughthammer, Boards and Bits only offer the "standard" denominations.
I know at least for ThoughtHammer when you buy a GC you are simply adding to your GC balance... then you can send any amount you want to someone (you just may still have a balance left over after). Maybe it's the same at the others?
My first choice, Time Well Spent, only has $10, $25 and $50 denominations. It's possible that Dave could do something custom but I'm not sure.
 
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Re: Continental US Math Trade: now open for submissions
A quick thursday night status update:

I just did a resync on the OLWLG, we're up to 1177 items now.

So far everything is going smoothly. We do have a few first time math traders, so if you see something wrong in an entry from a name don't recognize, let them know but remember that all of us were newbie's at one time.

A few people have asked if the OLWLG tool is required. The answer is no it isn't. You can still do manual want list and Geekmail it to me. I'd prefer you use the OLWLG and submit it that way, but it isn't required.

I won't be around much on Friday, so hopefully Jeffy can do a resync during the day.

I have a funeral to attend on Saturday, so the listing period might stay open a couple of hours extra. I'm figuring 1 AM at latest. Since the schedule has 3 days for want lists to be submitted, that deadline will not change.

Based on past math trades and our volume right now, I'd guess we'll end up with 1600-1800 items. Of course that's just a guess.

Once the want lists start coming on Sunday, I'll provide periodic updates on how many trades are showing.

Since I'll be able to see these interim results, I'll be posting my want lists here shortly after the list is closed.
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Re: Continental US Math Trade: now open for submissions
oh yea... reminder for the newbies (and everyone)... there are some games in this math trade that are easy mistaken for other games because they have similiar if not identical names...double check the designer, number of players, year of publication, image, etc etc.

it's still on my to do list to have the OLWLG warn in step 3 if a game is not a unique name in the bgg database (or we could just come up with a list of game id's for such games if anyone has such a list already compiled?)
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