Recommend
28 
 Thumb up
 Hide
183 Posts
1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5  Next »  [8] | 

BoardGameGeek» Forums » Gaming Related » Trades

Subject: Short and Sweet Math Trade - Discussion. Results now official! rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Albert
United States
Wauwatosa
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mb
Trade Geeklist: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/40643

Use of the On-Line Want List Generator (OLWLG) is required for this event (please remember to tip JeffyJeff some GG for his support).

Please do not delete items or sweeteners once you have listed them. You can always submit a blank want list for an entry if you've traded it away before the deadline.

OK - some simple rules - please take a few minutes to read them:

1) Gift certificates, Geekgold, DVDs etc are all permitted.

2) Gift certificate and GG arbitrage IS allowed.

3) Non-game entries must be added as "Outside the Scope of BGG" (game id 23953) or "Miscellaneous Game Accessory" (game id 5985) and must include the +altname+ brief description -altname- format in the description of your item.

If you are offering an expansion for which there is no entry in BGG (for instance expansion cards handed out at Essen) and NOT the base game, please use "Miscellaneous Game Accessory" to help avoid confusion.

4) You are expected to describe, as accurately as is reasonably possible, the condition (components and box), language and edition of your item in the description. This includes sweeteners if they are physical items (i.e. not GG).

For games not brand new (in shrink) you must inventory the game's components and list anything missing. Do not assume it's complete. Also, remember that just because something is "new in shrink" that doesn't mean that you shouldn't disclose any dings. It might not matter to you, but it matters to some people.

If the game and/or expansion you are listing is a "Print & Play" make that clear in the description (and I recommend you give specifics what it was printed on, mounted on, etc).

If you are listing an expansion if you reference the base game in the description be clear one way or the other if you are including the base game or not. Do not include a link to the base game unless you are including it as this looks, in the OLWLG, as if you are.

5) Your shipping restrictions must be clearly stated and if you are not covering full shipping, you must state precisely how much of the shipping you will cover. You are not permitted to require a specific amount for shipping from the recipient and must cover at least the first $5 of shipping costs for items you send out. "Mirror shipping" is not allowed. People will offer to pay what they think they can afford, within the rules - if you don't like someone else's shipping policies, then don't put their items on your list. Any ambiguity will be interpreted as generosity on your part. This means that if you don't include a shipping policy, then it is assumed that you will ship anywhere in the world for free!

If you are not covering full shipping within your own country, please state clearly where you are shipping from as this will help anyone who is trying to figure out their shipping cost for your item.

6) Sweeteners are to be listed using either the GAMEID formatting (prefered, example Hansa) or a link to the game's page (this will look like http://www.boardgamegeek.com/game/8989). If you don't use this format your sweeteners won't show up in the OLWLG properly.

7) If you've been reported as a bad trader, you cannot participate. If you try to, I will remove your entries.

8) Please do NOT include links to other games in your entry unless you are actually including them as a sweetener, as this is displayed in a misleading manner by the OLWLG.

9) Finally - you are expected to periodically check during the item submission period, and preferably during the want list submission period, to see if anyone has commented on your entries. People often ask questions of items - most commonly because you have forgotten to state a version, language or shipping policy - and you should check in to address such questions in a timely manner should they arise, so that everyone then has the correct information available.

This is a very easy thing to do. Just click on "My Geek", then "Contributions" and finally on "GeekList Items". You will then be able to see your items without having to find them in the trade GeekList along with any comments that people have made. You will only need to go back to the trade GeekList to make adjustments or answer questions if there were any.


Other useful information

OLWLG Guides: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/30011
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/32005 (Duplicate protection)
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/159648

Software Used: TradeMaximizer 1.3a with duplicate protection.
SEED=1234567, ITERATIONS=100
Edit: Linear-Priorities will be used so Seed and Iterations will not be needed.

List Cap: None

Maximum Submissions Per User: Unlimited

Geekgold restrictions:

Users may not post more geekgold than they currently have. Geekgold arbitrage is allowed.


Key dates (all times CENTRAL TIME)

Open for posting games: Sunday, March 15th until Tuesday, March 17th (10pm)

Want list submission period: Tuesday, March 17th (10pm). until Wednesday, March 18th (10pm) - no extensions!
Results posted about an hour thereafter.

Please note that it's best to work on your want list and submit them early - you can always make changes and resubmit later. This will prevent you from being left out if you forget the deadline.

Also: Creating want lists is not the same as submitting them. To submit them you will need to click on the "Submit My Wants" button. If you're not sure how to find this, consult the documentation referenced above or ask in the discussion thread.
When you submit your want lists, you will receive a confirming GeekMail. If you don't get one, your want lists haven't been submitted. Your want lists in the GeekMail may be truncated - this is fine.

Want list submission

Submissions may be made at any time after the 17th at 10pm, but only by the OLWLG. If you will be unavailable during the want list submission period but still wish to participate, contact me directly and we can discuss alternatives.

Note: only errors by the moderator will invalidate the results.

Also in the case that there is a problem after the results are posted, at most it will only invalidate the affected trade chain(s) and not the entire results set. In addition if the problem can be resolved by the most directly affected party or parties, then that is perfectly acceptable.
4 
 Thumb up
2.02
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Albert
United States
Wauwatosa
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mb
Re: Short and Sweet Math Trade Discussion
If you've never used the OLWLG before, start with:

1) Follow this link - http://bgg.activityclub.org/olwlg/bgglogin.cgi

2) Enter your BGG name and click on "Send Now".

3) You will receive a GeekMail containing your own personal link to the new OLWLG.

To use the OLWLG, see the links provided above in the instructions.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Albert
United States
Wauwatosa
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mb
Re: Short and Sweet Math Trade Discussion
With 30 minutes to go, we're still waiting on the following wantlists:

# MISSING 21 WANTS (2.4%) FROM 7 USER(s) (4.4%):
# apatheticexecutioner (1)
# djjuras (3)
# hotrodqt (9)
# jjacjackson (2)
# Lou-Dawg (4)
# tornadog (1)
# weasel (1)
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Albert
United States
Wauwatosa
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mb
Re: Short and Sweet Math Trade Discussion
Official Want lists:

http://bgg.activityclub.org/olwlg/40643-officialwants.txt

Official results

http://bgg.activityclub.org/olwlg/40643-results-official.txt
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Albert
United States
Wauwatosa
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mb
Re: Short and Sweet Math Trade - Discussion
Since this will be a pretty short math trade, I think we can do without a request list.

Also, I figured I'd keep it simple and basically make it an unrestricted math trade. This includes allowing arbitage (gift cards card, geek gold, etc.)



2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew Tullsen
United States
VANCOUVER
WA
flag msg tools
designer
48 hour turnaround time for Prototypes!
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: Short and Sweet Math Trade - Discussion
This conflicts with the GameStorm MT slightly.

The GameStorm one ends its item submission on Wed 18th 8:00pm. So if you are in both, you have to put all your items in this one, and all your items in the GameStorm one, and then you will probably have to blank out a number of wantlists on the GameStorm MT.

Oh well.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ryan Gatti
United States
Portland
Oregon
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: Short and Sweet Math Trade - Discussion
Does this trade support the multiple copy notation?

%Options%
Copies: 2
%End%


I assume this is actually handled by the OLWLG, but I wanted to ask before I used it in case it needed to be enabled by the moderator or something similar.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Albert
United States
Wauwatosa
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mb
Re: Short and Sweet Math Trade - Discussion
Howitzer_120mm wrote:
This conflicts with the GameStorm MT slightly.

The GameStorm one ends its item submission on Wed 18th 8:00pm. So if you are in both, you have to put all your items in this one, and all your items in the GameStorm one, and then you will probably have to blank out a number of wantlists on the GameStorm MT.

Oh well.
Yes, I just realized this. My apologies to the Gamestorm MT.

My original plan was to end this one on Tuesday, but I decided to extend it one day to encourage participation - Unfortunately, it may have the opposite effect.

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dom L
United States
Maine
flag msg tools
badge
READ A BOOK!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: Short and Sweet Math Trade - Discussion
Thanks for doing this, I love these fast trades.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Albert
United States
Wauwatosa
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mb
Re: Short and Sweet Math Trade - Discussion
rgatti wrote:
Does this trade support the multiple copy notation?

%Options%
Copies: 2
%End%


I assume this is actually handled by the OLWLG, but I wanted to ask before I used it in case it needed to be enabled by the moderator or something similar.
Correct - this is handled by the OLWLG. Thanks for asking.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jack K
United States
Shorewood
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
Treasure those you love...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: Short and Sweet Math Trade - Discussion
Which metric are you using for this? If you want to use USERS-TRADING you need v1.4. If you want to use LINEAR-PRIORITIES, then you don't need ITERATIONS or SEED and I don't think the multiple copy notation works with 1.3a (JeffyJeff can correct me if I'm mistaken on that).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Albert
United States
Wauwatosa
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mb
Re: Short and Sweet Math Trade - Discussion
anglotiger wrote:
Which metric are you using for this? If you want to use USERS-TRADING you need v1.4. If you want to use LINEAR-PRIORITIES, then you don't need ITERATIONS or SEED and I don't think the multiple copy notation works with 1.3a (JeffyJeff can correct me if I'm mistaken on that).
Thanks for raising that question. I'll be using Linear-priorities. I'll be making the correction in the header shortly.

I'll defintely be using v1.3a for the math trade. For whatever reason, I'm having trouble running 1.4 on my CPU (presumably some problem with my cpu and Java), but I have no problem with the dos based version of 1.3a.

I also asked Jeff about multiple copies and version 1.3a and he mentioned that it would be handled by the OLWLG.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jack K
United States
Shorewood
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
Treasure those you love...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: Short and Sweet Math Trade - Discussion
aksosa wrote:
I'll defintely be using v1.3a for the math trade. For whatever reason, I'm having trouble running 1.4 on my CPU (presumably some problem with my cpu and Java), but I have no problem with the dos based version of 1.3a.
Yes, I recall having to upgrade my version of Java in order to make the step up to 1.4.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Lou Seelbach
United States
Huntington
West Virginia
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: Short and Sweet Math Trade - Discussion
rgatti wrote:
Does this trade support the multiple copy notation?

%Options%
Copies: 2
%End%


I assume this is actually handled by the OLWLG, but I wanted to ask before I used it in case it needed to be enabled by the moderator or something similar.
What does this mean?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jack K
United States
Shorewood
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
Treasure those you love...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: Short and Sweet Math Trade - Discussion
Everyone - please remember that we're using LINEAR-PRIORITIES for the metric in this one. We've used USERS-TRADING for the last three or four events, so we don't want anyone to forget...

This means that for this event the values you assign to the items on your want lists DOES matter this time.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ryan Gatti
United States
Portland
Oregon
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: Short and Sweet Math Trade - Discussion
Lou-Dawg wrote:
rgatti wrote:
Does this trade support the multiple copy notation?

%Options%
Copies: 2
%End%


I assume this is actually handled by the OLWLG, but I wanted to ask before I used it in case it needed to be enabled by the moderator or something similar.
What does this mean?
When you add this to a game, this indicates that you have multiple copies of the game available for trade, but only use a single entry to do so. The OLWLG automatically creates multiple copies of your entry (and automatically duplicate protects them so people who add that item can only receive one of your copies).

Notice that Items #10/#12, #14/#16, #21/#23, and #27/#28 are offered by the same person in identical condition. Now, instead of creating 2 entries for each, the user could have simply added the above notation (needing only 4 total entries).

It's important to remember that the condition of the items needs to be identical since anyone adding these items could get any of them. Also, if you're adding an item that someone might want multiple copies of (non-duplicate protected), then you shouldn't use the copy notation.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Bartel
United States
Portland
Oregon
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: Short and Sweet Math Trade - Discussion
rgatti wrote:
Notice that Items #10/#12, #14/#16, #21/#23, and #27/#28 are offered by the same person in identical condition. Now, instead of creating 2 entries for each, the user could have simply added the above notation (needing only 4 total entries).
I didn't realize this option exists. I will definitely remember that for next time. blush
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Richard S
United States
Rensselaer
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: Short and Sweet Math Trade - Discussion
anglotiger wrote:
Everyone - please remember that we're using LINEAR-PRIORITIES for the metric in this one. We've used USERS-TRADING for the last three or four events, so we don't want anyone to forget...

This means that for this event the values you assign to the items on your want lists DOES matter this time.
Could someone provide me with a link to some explanation of LINEAR-PRIORITIES? Thanks.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jack K
United States
Shorewood
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
Treasure those you love...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: Short and Sweet Math Trade - Discussion
Simply put, the TradeMaximizer software determines the most trade that can be found and ties are broken by the order in which people put things you their wants, using the "value" assigned in the OLWLG.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Richard S
United States
Rensselaer
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: Short and Sweet Math Trade - Discussion
anglotiger wrote:
Simply put, the TradeMaximizer software determines the most trade that can be found and ties are broken by the order in which people put things you their wants, using the "value" assigned in the OLWLG.
Thanks.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ryan Gatti
United States
Portland
Oregon
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: Short and Sweet Math Trade - Discussion
homiefud wrote:
rgatti wrote:
Notice that Items #10/#12, #14/#16, #21/#23, and #27/#28 are offered by the same person in identical condition. Now, instead of creating 2 entries for each, the user could have simply added the above notation (needing only 4 total entries).
I didn't realize this option exists. I will definitely remember that for next time. blush
I didn't mean to single you out, but it was an excellent illustration of where someone would probably want to use this feature (if they were aware of it). It's not a requirement, by any means, but it appears to be a very convenient feature (especially if you're looking to trade more than 2 copies of a game in identical condition.).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ryan Gatti
United States
Portland
Oregon
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: Short and Sweet Math Trade - Discussion
anglotiger wrote:
Which metric are you using for this? If you want to use USERS-TRADING you need v1.4. If you want to use LINEAR-PRIORITIES, then you don't need ITERATIONS or SEED and I don't think the multiple copy notation works with 1.3a (JeffyJeff can correct me if I'm mistaken on that).
I'm pretty sure that ITERATIONS and SEED are still very relevant (especially for reconstructing the final results, but also for finding a particular result set). LINEAR-PRIORITIES does apply priorities to break ties, but it by no means guarantees the optimal priority result set (each iteration may give a different set of trades that result in the maximum number with ties broken by linear priority weighting, but the selected iteration is the one with the lowest sum of squares (I think this is the metric used to pick between results from different iterations.).).

I get the sense that priorities have a very small impact (if any) on the final result set (since the maximum number of trades usually have a very specific set of trades and few ties to break by priority.). I could be mistaken, but it feels largely irrelevant.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Davido
United States
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: Short and Sweet Math Trade - Discussion
Murphy's Law of Math Trades: You WILL get your least desired item for any particular want list. Do NOT put a game on a want list that you would not be absolutely delighted to receive
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Albert
United States
Wauwatosa
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mb
Re: Short and Sweet Math Trade - Discussion
rgatti wrote:
anglotiger wrote:
Which metric are you using for this? If you want to use USERS-TRADING you need v1.4. If you want to use LINEAR-PRIORITIES, then you don't need ITERATIONS or SEED and I don't think the multiple copy notation works with 1.3a (JeffyJeff can correct me if I'm mistaken on that).
I'm pretty sure that ITERATIONS and SEED are still very relevant (especially for reconstructing the final results, but also for finding a particular result set). LINEAR-PRIORITIES does apply priorities to break ties, but it by no means guarantees the optimal priority result set (each iteration may give a different set of trades that result in the maximum number with ties broken by linear priority weighting, but the selected iteration is the one with the lowest sum of squares (I think this is the metric used to pick between results from different iterations.).).

I get the sense that priorities have a very small impact (if any) on the final result set (since the maximum number of trades usually have a very specific set of trades and few ties to break by priority.). I could be mistaken, but it feels largely irrelevant.
Can anyone confirm this? I can test this using want list data from previous math trades, but I won't be able to do that until later tonight. In the meantime, if anyone would like to test this themselves, be my guest - I'd be curious to see the results.
 
 Thumb up
5.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Okasaki
United States
White Plains
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: Short and Sweet Math Trade - Discussion
aksosa wrote:
rgatti wrote:
anglotiger wrote:
Which metric are you using for this? If you want to use USERS-TRADING you need v1.4. If you want to use LINEAR-PRIORITIES, then you don't need ITERATIONS or SEED and I don't think the multiple copy notation works with 1.3a (JeffyJeff can correct me if I'm mistaken on that).
I'm pretty sure that ITERATIONS and SEED are still very relevant (especially for reconstructing the final results, but also for finding a particular result set). LINEAR-PRIORITIES does apply priorities to break ties, but it by no means guarantees the optimal priority result set (each iteration may give a different set of trades that result in the maximum number with ties broken by linear priority weighting, but the selected iteration is the one with the lowest sum of squares (I think this is the metric used to pick between results from different iterations.).).

I get the sense that priorities have a very small impact (if any) on the final result set (since the maximum number of trades usually have a very specific set of trades and few ties to break by priority.). I could be mistaken, but it feels largely irrelevant.
Can anyone confirm this? I can test this using want list data from previous math trades, but I won't be able to do that until later tonight. In the meantime, if anyone would like to test this themselves, be my guest - I'd be curious to see the results.
Here's the scoop:

1. TradeMaximizer always maximizes the number of items traded. However, there are usually many possible ways to achieve that maximum.

2. Among the many possible ways to achieve the maximum number of items traded, TradeMaximizer always chooses one with the optimal priority (assuming LINEAR-PRIORITIES are being used). However, there still may be many possible ways to achieve this optimum.

3. Among the many possible ways to achieve the maximum number of items traded and the optimal priority, TradeMaximizer tries to choose one that does well on the sum-of-squares metric (assuming ITERATIONS and SEED are being used). The sum-of-squares metric has nothing to do with priorities, but rather prefers many small loops over fewer large loops. Note also that there is no guarantee of finding the optimum sum-of-squares. It simply runs the indicated number of ITERATIONS and keeps track of the best it has found.

In summary, maximizing the number of items traded is the main goal. LINEAR-PRIORITIES is the first tiebreaker. Sum-of-squares is the second tiebreaker.
6 
 Thumb up
5.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5  Next »  [8] |