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Subject: Extended deck Court rank cards rss

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P.D. Magnus
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When I devised the extended deck, I added another rank (Pawn) which is above 9 and below Crown. Jens Alfke sarcastically commented that I could keep making additions and turn the Decktet into a collectible card game.

When I devised the Pawn symbol, however, I had a a half-formed idea for a rank in the progression from Pawns (with one dot) to Crowns (with three). I considered making this a rank different than any other, trying out ideas like four suits per card or a new wild suit.



I ultimately decided that the Court rank, like Pawn, would be four cards with three suits on each card. The suit combinations were selected so that the Courts contain every pairwise suit combination absent from the basic deck (like Moons-Wyrms) but none of the most common combinations (like Moons-Suns). Since the new Courts are nearly the only way to satisfy both of this goals-- and since there's no more space between one and three-- I can't just tack on an extra rank.



If a publisher were interested in producing the Decktet, they might want an extra feature that was not already freely available. Since this is the final piece of the extended deck, I should probably just sit on it. As such, I am not releasing the Courts under the same open license as the rest of the Decktet.

However, I wanted to include the Courts in my own decks to try them out. And once I was having them printed, I thought it would only be fair to share them with people who traded for or bought copies from me. If you got a printed Decktet from me, there is already a copy of the Court cards in the mail.

When I design a game for the Decktet, I start out with the basic deck. The extended deck cards come in later as optional additions, if at all. So if you've made your own copy of the Decktet or gotten one through ArtsCow, you are not missing out on any functionality by not having the Court cards.

If you think they're a must have, there are three options for now. You can buy a copy from me, make a trade offer, or talk a commercial publisher into picking up the Decktet. I would be happy with any of these.
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Jorge Arroyo
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They do look very nice I'm looking forward to receiving my copies (You did mean you've sent them to anyone that has bought a deck from you, right?).

I'm curious, have you already devised a use for these cards in any of your games?

Also, how will they fit in with the fortune-telling aspect of the deck?

I'm not sure I like the idea of different restrictions to different decktet "expansions". But if this is not going to be part of the regular decktet, you might want to make a separate "expansion" entry on BGG.

I guess one of two things might happen: That very few games will use these cards (and those that use them will only do so optionally), or that people will just design their own card artwork for this expansion and release them freely.

Another question, will you update the font for the new symbol?

Edit: Of course, if a publisher would pick the game up, they could release the deck with rules for a few games that really need these cards as an incentive for people to get the commercial version, but anyway, for me, the biggest incentive to get the commercial version would be to get a real deck of cards. Non of the currently available options match the quality of real cards...
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P.D. Magnus
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maka wrote:
They do look very nice I'm looking forward to receiving my copies (You did mean you've sent them to anyone that has bought a deck from you, right?).


Yep. They're in the mail.

Quote:

I'm curious, have you already devised a use for these cards in any of your games?


We have found a few uses for them, but nothing that we couldn't have done with Pawns if we'd thought of it.

Quote:

Also, how will they fit in with the fortune-telling aspect of the deck?


The Courts add a personality, two locations, and an event.

Quote:

I'm not sure I like the idea of different restrictions to different decktet "expansions". But if this is not going to be part of the regular decktet, you might want to make a separate "expansion" entry on BGG.


That seems like an unnecessary multiplication of entries. I still think of the "regular Decktet" as just being the 36 basic deck cards, but we certainly don't need a separate entry for the Excuse and the Pawns.

Quote:

I guess one of two things might happen: That very few games will use these cards (and those that use them will only do so optionally), or that people will just design their own card artwork for this expansion and release them freely.


Good point. You are welcome to make your own Court cards, with the the same rank symbol and suit distribution. Erulisse's Decktet kit should be up to the task. The only thing I'm holding onto is the actual illustrations.

Quote:

Another question, will you update the font for the new symbol?


Another good point. Done.

Quote:

...the biggest incentive to get the commercial version would be to get a real deck of cards. None of the currently available options match the quality of real cards...


When I released the Decktet last year it seemed as if the only real options for printing the cards were paper in card sleeves, printing on card stock, or printing stickers and putting those onto playing cards. POD card printing is now pretty good, equal to at least the low quality cards that come with some commercial games. Sometimes I wonder if we won't have POD printing on genuine playing card stock soon.
 
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Jorge Arroyo
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pmagnus wrote:
maka wrote:
They do look very nice I'm looking forward to receiving my copies (You did mean you've sent them to anyone that has bought a deck from you, right?).


Yep. They're in the mail.


Wow Thanks!!

Quote:

Quote:

I'm not sure I like the idea of different restrictions to different decktet "expansions". But if this is not going to be part of the regular decktet, you might want to make a separate "expansion" entry on BGG.


That seems like an unnecessary multiplication of entries. I still think of the "regular Decktet" as just being the 36 basic deck cards, but we certainly don't need a separate entry for the Excuse and the Pawns.


I agree the pawns and excuse don't need another entry, as they're pretty much available together with the rest of the deck, but if this new rank is a separate entity, maybe it should, at least to differentiate between the freely available decktet and this "restricted" expansion...

Quote:

Quote:

I guess one of two things might happen: That very few games will use these cards (and those that use them will only do so optionally), or that people will just design their own card artwork for this expansion and release them freely.


Good point. You are welcome to make your own Court cards, with the the same rank symbol and suit distribution. Erulisse's Decktet kit should be up to the task. The only thing I'm holding onto is the actual illustrations.


Well, it won't be me but I was just speculating what might happen if the new expansion ends up being needed in many games...

Quote:

Quote:

...the biggest incentive to get the commercial version would be to get a real deck of cards. None of the currently available options match the quality of real cards...


When I released the Decktet last year it seemed as if the only real options for printing the cards were paper in card sleeves, printing on card stock, or printing stickers and putting those onto playing cards. POD card printing is now pretty good, equal to at least the low quality cards that come with some commercial games. Sometimes I wonder if we won't have POD printing on genuine playing card stock soon.


You're right, and I look forward to that time For now, I wish you luck in finding a publisher that can print on real card stock
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Jens Alfke
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Aw, I wasn't being sarcastic! Or maybe I was, but only in the nicest possible way...

Anyway, you have now broken my will, and I must immediately buy a printed Decktet from you, if only because spray-coating those PlainCards is a really unpleasant task.

/exits, in the direction of PayPal
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Daniel Wilcox
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These are really beautiful! Thank you for allowing the fan base to customize our own set of court cards. Withholding the art is an ok move. It will motivate more people to purchase a copy. I think it could also finally push some custom art and cards out there!
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Frank Griese
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Quote:
Also, how will they fit in with the fortune-telling aspect of the deck?


I am also interested in hearing your Answer. The court cards are:

- Window (location)
- Island (location)
- Consul (personality)
- Rite (event)

BTW, the artwork is really nice and I am considering to buy a deck from you (even though I just ordered two from artscow).

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Welcome Rolling Stones
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I got a nice surprise in the mail today!

Thanks!
 
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Like water spilled on the ground, which cannot be recovered, so we must die. But God does not take away life; instead, he devises ways so that a banished person may not remain estranged from him. 2 Sam 14:14
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Bah! And I just finished making my own!
 
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P.D. Magnus
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out4blood wrote:
Bah! And I just finished making my own!


In case the 'bah!' is serious, I'll mention again that there isn't any use yet for the Courts. And games can be played with just the basic deck; even the Excuse and Pawns are options.

Quote:
Quote:
Also, how will they fit in with the fortune-telling aspect of the deck?

I am also interested in hearing your Answer.


I'm actually not very good at telling fortunes, because doing it well requires improvising. In that regard, the Courts don't change anything. As for specific interpretation, here are some ideas from my notes:

THE CONSUL is both wise and cunning. He is a useful source of advise and a surrogate authority, a conduit for knowledge and power. But perhaps he keeps the better part of both for himself.

THE ISLAND combines the unexpected elements of the DISCOVERY with the dark isolation of the CAVE. Whether you go to the island by accident or by choice, you go there alone.

THE RITE records the passage of time and the consequences of its passage: sacrifice and accomplishment, ascension and decline.

THE WINDOW allows you to see out and allows the world to see in, but it is also a barrier separating the two.
 
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Tim Seitz
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Like water spilled on the ground, which cannot be recovered, so we must die. But God does not take away life; instead, he devises ways so that a banished person may not remain estranged from him. 2 Sam 14:14
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No, my "bah" was not serious

I have yet to actually play any games with the deck; it's only because of the artscow discussions about making decks that I'd even heard of your game. I'm excited to learn to play some of the games and get it to the table and introduce it to our local gamers. No one around here as even heard of it.
 
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Jorge Arroyo
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Amazing I got them in the mail today...

Thanks!!!

 
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Frank Griese
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Quote:
I'm actually not very good at telling fortunes, because doing it well requires improvising. In that regard, the Courts don't change anything. As for specific interpretation, here are some ideas from my notes:


You are right about improvising, but your ideas about the four additionnal cards are very valuable and usefull as you have spent a lot of time with them and know them well. It is like introducing the cards' personalities to us, so we get acquainted with them.

Thanks for your effort and for sharing these beautifull cards with us !
 
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Calvin Daniels
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So how are these available?

And where are game rules availoable to give them a try?

Thanks
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P.D. Magnus
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Talisinbear wrote:
So how are these available?


The Court cards are presently only available if you order a deck from me. My reasons for this are in the original post.

Quote:

And where are game rules availoable to give them a try?


The Courts can follow the rules for Pawn cards, in games that allow Pawns. There aren't yet any games that require them.

(I am assuming that your question is about the extended deck Court cards. The basic Decktet and most of the extended deck cards are available for free on-line.)
 
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Moisés Solé
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How does people feel about the fact that Courts seem to break the nice simmetries with

a) the number of Personalities, Events, and Locations (by adding one more Location)

b) the prohibited pairs of suits (which are not prohibited anymore)

b2) the common pairs of suits (which are still common but more dilluted)

c) No longer needing at least three cards for a full suit set?
 
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P.D. Magnus
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referee wrote:
How does people feel about the fact that Courts seem to break the nice simmetries...


Good question. I am curious to see if anyone else chimes in, but here are my two cents:

Most of the symmetries you mention were already broken with the Pawns. The difference between the numbers of Personalities, Events, and Locations could only have been avoided if I made them a three card rank or if I made more cards that were both Events and Locations. Yet I thought there was enough of both in the basic deck, and I wanted the Pawns to be something different.

That was the goal with the Courts, too. They aren't just more of the same. Since they're optional, you can leave them out if you're playing a game that makes use of any of the symmetries you mention. Adding them in changes the structure of the deck, which makes different things possible.
 
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Moisés Solé
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Pawns only break a, of the ones I listed which are the ones I noticed, and they do by adding one more personality, which I see somewhat as a minor breach. b and c are preserved by the pawns. A further expansion with two events would restore a, but b and c are broken for good.

But I'd also like to see other users thoughts on this.
 
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P.D. Magnus
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Pawns break b, too: With the Pawns in play, every possible suit combination occurs on at least on card.

And c is only broken if you use both the Pawns and the Courts. Two Pawns will have five of the six suits, regardless of which two you pick. Similarly, any two Courts will have five of the six suits.
 
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Moisés Solé
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That is true, my bad. I thought pawns respected b, since each suit matches with four other on pawns.
 
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Julius Andrikonis
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pmagnus wrote:
Quote:
I guess one of two things might happen: That very few games will use these cards (and those that use them will only do so optionally), or that people will just design their own card artwork for this expansion and release them freely.


Good point. You are welcome to make your own Court cards, with the the same rank symbol and suit distribution. Erulisse's Decktet kit should be up to the task. The only thing I'm holding onto is the actual illustrations.


I am trying to get my copy of Decktet printed on Artscow and I am wondering if it is OK with pmagnus to post your own designs of Courts cards for free download? If so, has anybody done any work in that field and would like to share?
 
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