Jim Pellegrinelli
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OK - just want to make sure I am interpreting this right. It looks like in this one action, you have the ability to do three entirely different things.

The text reads:
Primacy-Action: Place one basestar in front of Galactica, or if all basestars are in play, you may remove one from the game board. You may then place 3 raiders in front of Galactica and 1 civilian ship behind Galactica.

First, you can deploy a basestar in front of Galactica. Second, if both basestars are already in play, you can instead opt to remove one of them (so if you have a human friendly agenda you can significantly improve their situation - having two basestars doubles all missile strikes on Galactica and all raider deployments, so getting rid of one is significant). And third, after doing either of the aforementioned actions, you can additionally place a civilian ship behind galactica and three raiders in front. Am I correct?

Also, if you want to just add the civvie ship and raiders, but all the basestars are in play already, you can just skip to that step, correct? Nothing obligates you to pull one of the basestars, right?
 
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Todd Warnken
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Your interpretation sounds correct to me.
 
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Blair Riding
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I've also heard the interpretation that you can add a basestar, or you can remove a basestar, but you may only add the raiders and civilian ship if you remove a basestar first. I think either of those interpretations might be valid based on the wording. I don't read it saying that you can add the raiders and civilian ship without first doing something with a basestar first, though. The word 'then' usually implies that some action preceded it.
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Tyler Stratton
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I agree, You must first either put a basestar in play or remove one before you can place the ships and civies.

Interesting I didn't think that you could do both for either but it does read that way! Yeah.

Also just for the record I think Cavil is the most fun to play because attacking with ships is always more fun then doing skill checks.
 
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John Clark
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Hypnotoad523 wrote:
Primacy-Action: Place one basestar in front of Galactica, or if all basestars are in play, you may remove one from the game board. You may then place 3 raiders in front of Galactica and 1 civilian ship behind Galactica.
This is how I am reading it:

I. In the case that fewer than two basestars are in play -- Action: Place one basestar in front of Galactica; then, if you so choose, you may additionally place 3 raiders in front of Galactica and 1 civilian ship behind Galactica.

II. In the case that exactly two basestars are in play -- Action: If you so choose, you may remove one basestar from the game board; then, if you so choose, you may place 3 raiders in front of Galactica and 1 civilian ship behind Galactica.


That is, if there are 0 or 1 basestars in play, Cavil cannot add the raiders and the civilian ship without first adding a basestar.

EDIT: This also means, to me, that if exactly 2 basestars are in play, Cavil DOES have the option of adding the raiders and the civilian ship WITHOUT removing a basestar.
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I am not a native English speaker but Cavil's ability is worded the same way than the Resurrection Ship location's ability in the original game. And that was ruled to be handled as two separate things (you may give away your unrevealed loyalty cards, than, unrelated to this, you can draw a new super crysis card).

So I guess you put in or remove or don't do anything with the basestars, than unrelated to this you place the raiders and the civ ship.
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Nagypapi wrote:
I am not a native English speaker but Cavil's ability is worded the same way than the Resurrection Ship location's ability in the original game. And that was ruled to be handled as two separate things (you may give away your unrevealed loyalty cards, than, unrelated to this, you can draw a new super crysis card).
Err, no. It was two unrelated things, both of which you must do. The first thing it made you do was cycle super crises--but it gave you an option ("you may..."), which means you could elect to.

Regardless of whether or not you've cycled super crises, secondly, you MUST give away your loyalty cards if the jump distance is less than a certain amount.

(I might have this backwards, but one of the operations was mandatory.)
 
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What I wanted to draw attention is the independency of the two parts from each other.
 
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They are not completely independent. If 0 or 1 basestar is in space areas around Galactica you must place a basestar as a part of this action. Only if two basestars are in play do you have a choice in what you're doing with the basestars. The only scenario I can think of where this is important (i.e. that Cavil cannot place raiders on a board with 0 or 1 basestars without placing a basestar) is the Prove Their Worth agenda.
 
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Unofficial FAQ wrote:
Q: If both basestars are on the board, can Cavil use his Primacy ability to add raiders and a civilian ship WITHOUT removing a basestar first?
A: (Corey, FFG, to infocynic) Yes. Adding or removing basestars is optional.

Q: How does Cavil's Primarcy ability interact with the Cylon Fleet module (from Exodus)?
A: (Tim Uren, FFG, to infocynic) Cavil's ability can't be used to add or remove basestars to the reserve board. If Cavil needs to place a basestar and none are in supply, he takes the one from the lowest-numbered reserve board space (as per page 14 of the Exodus rules).
I hope I can get an answer to this without creating a new thread; I'm a little confused, as these two answers seem to contradict each other.

From Tim's answer, and the ability as written on Cavil's character sheet, I would assume that in case there are no basestars, or only one, you have to place a basestar when you use Primacy. Otherwise, Cavil would never 'need' to add a basestar.

However, Corey bluntly states that adding basestars is optional, (which wasn't even the question,) apparently in contradiction to Primacy's description.

Personally, I think I'll go with the ability as written for now, and assume Corey shot from the hip when he answered that question.
 
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Ren Thicya
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Any new info on this matter?

Here's what I think, regardless of the questionable official answer
.
Since this is an Action, which can be played in every round, I'd say that the "Place raiders and civilian ship" only applies when the player has removed a battlestar beforehand. Why?

Because if placing 3 raiders and a civ. ship could accour without any "penalty" (removing a basestar), humans would be dead at the 5th turn with having 5*3 raiders on the board.
With this "remove a basestar" penalty, at least its occurence can be delayed to every 2 turns.

So I'd say that the raider and civ. placing only applies if given player chooses to remove a basestar instead of adding one.

When all basestars have been destroyed, this ability will not be available in the rest of the game (much like Cain's Blind Jump ability after distance 6.

So basically, I'd go with:
"When there's an available basestar to place onto the board do it. In case all of them are already on the board, you may choose to remove one if you want. If you choose to remove one instead of doing nothing (which would mean that using this action in this turn would be useless), you may place raiders and a civ. ship instead, if you want."




Also, I assume that by removing a damaged basestar, its damage tokens stay on it until complete destruction, and the basestar will come into play already damaged the next time it is summoned.
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Robert Stewart
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You, of course, may play however you wish (so long as the people with whom you are playing agree).

If you have Cavil, then you have at least 4 players. If his Primacy places three Raiders every time, then the fastest he can place 15 Raiders is over 9 turns - 3 from him (one of which he uses his once-per-game) and 2 each from everyone else.

By that time, there's a good chance that humans will be able to jump - and even if they can't, they can still do a fairly good job of shooting down the Cylon ships.

I agree that Cavil going all out to destroy all humans can make life very hard for them, but I'm not convinced it's unsurvivable.

***

The normal rule for damaged basestars is that they get repaired/replaced as soon as they leave the board - the next basestar to appear is a fresh one.

***

The real limiting factor on Cavil's ability to hammer the humans is that (in a 4 or 6 player game - I'm less familiar with the hostile agendas) if he manages to pound Galactica into space-junk at 4 distance, he loses. Illusion of Hope needs the humans to survive past 6 distance before losing, Salvage Their Equipment needs Galactica to be (mostly) intact, and the other sympathetic agendas need the humans to win.

Cavil's ability is very powerful, but not very useful to him.
 
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Ren Thicya
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Do you say that the official answer quoted above is the right way to play then? If so, I'll play by that.
 
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Adria D
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renthicya wrote:
Any new info on this matter?

Here's what I think, regardless of the questionable official answer
.
Since this is an Action, which can be played in every round, I'd say that the "Place raiders and civilian ship" only applies when the player has removed a battlestar beforehand. Why?

Because if placing 3 raiders and a civ. ship could accour without any "penalty" (removing a basestar), humans would be dead at the 5th turn with having 5*3 raiders on the board.
With this "remove a basestar" penalty, at least its occurence can be delayed to every 2 turns.

So I'd say that the raider and civ. placing only applies if given player chooses to remove a basestar instead of adding one.

When all basestars have been destroyed, this ability will not be available in the rest of the game (much like Cain's Blind Jump ability after distance 6.
Are you removing destroyed basestars from the game??

Destroyed basestars are NOT removed from the game completely. They are returned to the supply (fully healed) and can be brought back in by additional crisis cards and Cavil. There is no way remove basestars from the game, so Cavil's OPT ability does not lose functionality at any point in the game.

Also, I disagree with placing the raiders only if a basestar was removed. Cavil's OPT is written as two separate sentences, which implies to me that they are two separate steps.

Step 1: Place a basestar, or if 2 are already out, remove a basestar
Step 2: (Optional) Place raiders & civilian.


renthicya wrote:
Also, I assume that by removing a damaged basestar, its damage tokens stay on it until complete destruction, and the basestar will come into play already damaged the next time it is summoned.
As already mentioned by another poster, basestars are always healed fully when they are removed from the board for any reason.
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Ren Thicya
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Ah, I get it now, thank you!
 
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