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FRED Distribution, Inc.» Forums » News

Subject: Martin Wallace vs. FRED rss

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Andy Van Zandt
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FNH1 wrote:
After reading everything on that site, I say to both sides ...

Go to court. You're like two people talking who don't hear each other.

Go legal and let the professionals sort it out. Really, that will be the easiest and the best for everyone.


i agree with this statement. regardless of the amount of money involved, they should let other people sort out the mess, because they're not going to be able to on their own.
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Dave Shapiro
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If we all kick in a buck, there should be sufficient funds to procure a couple of 'ladies of the evening' for these guys. (It is obvious to me that they both are suffering from extreme frustration.) If we all kick in 2 bucks, they may just go away.
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Bruce Murphy
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dcorban wrote:
Yes, because after raping boardgamers for years with fixed prices, bad customer service, and horrible quality components, we would totally be unbiased.


Why bring Mayfair into this?

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Bruce Murphy
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qrux wrote:
If we all kick in a buck, there should be sufficient funds to procure a couple of 'ladies of the evening' for these guys. (It is obvious to me that they both are suffering from extreme frustration.) If we all kick in 2 bucks, they may just go away.


It's unclear how Martin's new wife would feel about this.

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Bruce Murphy
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Well, this is certainly a fine pickle. I see Martin is back. Why isn't he in this thread fanning the flames?

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John Reiners
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Drew1365 wrote:
Oh Em Gee! surprise

Still completely amazed by the whole "appeal to BGG" thing.






Didn't Wallace appeal to BGG and say that FRED was a bunch of crooks?
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Bruce Murphy
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Drew1365 wrote:
thepackrat wrote:
It's unclear how Martin's new wife would feel about this.


Wow. You, sir, may have just gone lower than I thought you'd ever go. thumbsdown

Really? Then how would you have pointed out how crass the OP was being?

Quote:

thepackrat wrote:
Well, this is certainly a fine pickle. I see Martin is back. Why isn't he in this thread fanning the flames?

Now that you've popped up again, there's no need for anyone else to fan the flames. You're a one-man firestorm.


Uh-huh.

B>
 
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Tom Vasel
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I see that, no matter who is in the right and wrong, the haters of FRED have shown up - yelling at them no matter what they do.

I wish, along with everyone else, that this matter had been kept private. But it's very apparent that some people can't separate their like/dislike of folks from the facts.
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Bruce Murphy
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TomVasel wrote:
I see that, no matter who is in the right and wrong, the haters of FRED have shown up - yelling at them no matter what they do.

I wish, along with everyone else, that this matter had been kept private. But it's very apparent that some people can't separate their like/dislike of folks from the facts.


But, but... Martin designed a game someone liked and FRED once produced dice that weren't very clear. How can there be any question of who is in the right here?
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Bruce Murphy
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Drew1365 wrote:

And the haters of Martin Wallace! Don't leave them out!

And where are these hypothetical haters of Martin Wallace?

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Tom Vasel
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thepackrat wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:

And the haters of Martin Wallace! Don't leave them out!

And where are these hypothetical haters of Martin Wallace?

B>


There are some, for sure - although I haven't seen them in this thread. I know and like Martin Wallace - he's been a wonderful person to work with, and I wish him great success. I also know and like the FRED guys - they are some of the nicest, friendliest people in the business.

I guess I get tired of people who DON'T know the folks making irrational statements about either party.
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Mac Mcleod
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Rokkr wrote:
Zimeon wrote:
Impartial mediation team from BGG?

Yeah right.

Try to find blueberries on the moon.

There are plenty of people who have not taken sides, myself being one of them.
In fact I've chided people for taking sides when they really don't know shit about what happened.

If they want me for a mediator, I volunteer.

I still haven't the faintest fucking idea who's fault all this brouhaha has been, nor do I really care. People have disputes all the time and the only way they ever work out is when both sides wish them to or a court decides. And even court decisions aren't always fair, just based on what they can figure out and what the laws are.

Same here.

No opinion either way on FRED or Wallace.

 
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John Reiners
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dcorban wrote:
I also see from those docs that, four years ago, Martin gladly offered to allow a reprint Princes of the Renaissance. And FRED didn't do it.

Two strikes...


Maybe I'm misreading it, or maybe there is a separate section but in fact I think Wallace mentioned that an Italian company expressed interest in a reprint of Volldampf and POR and that FRED or Funagain, said they didn't want to have Volldampf be released that year as it would be competing with Railroad Tycoon, but that they were doing nothing with POR so had no problems with that company reprinting it.But it wasn't offered to them to publish.

But at any rate, even if that were the case, they are not obligated to reprint the game . It may be a great game from a design perspective and there may be plenty of interest in a reprint, but that doesn't mean that it would make sense for FRED/EAGLE to reprint it if they didn't feel they could make money on it (or if they weren't in a position to produce it). And they had right of refusal to any game designs submitted by Wallace that would meet the obligations under their contract.
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Bruce Murphy
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maxo-texas wrote:

Same here.

No opinion either way on FRED or Wallace.



Oo! oo! Pick me! pick me!

B>
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Philip Eve
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maxo-texas wrote:
Same here.

No opinion either way on FRED or Wallace.

Oh sure Marxo-Texas. Just like a Communist to support those price fixing b@$T@rd$ at frad....
 
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Bruce Murphy
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Hammerite wrote:

Oh sure Marxo-Texas. Just like a Communist to support those price fixing b@$T@rd$ at frad....

Oddly enough, it's anti-capitalist anti-monopoly regulation that limits the price fixing companies can get up to.

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Ben .
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peacmyer wrote:
Except that for the dollar amounts involved it seems to make no financial sense to seek court intervention....


Especially seeing as the claim for damages is 15,000 GBP. Have these guys seen the way UK national debt is going at the moment?? By the time the case had gotten through, at the rate we're going to be printing money, £15,000 might just about stretch to buy you a copy of Space Hulk!
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Christopher DeFrisco
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Eagle/FRED may not be your favorite publisher, for whatever reason, but they went over and above for Wallace, and let blatant indiscretions by him slide.

I think Wallace is a brilliant game designer, but that seems to be the only criteria here on BGG that carries any weight.

When Wallace stepped over the line by publicly denouncing FRED, how was FRED supposed to defend themselves other than by presenting the facts? There is quite a bit of emotion in many of those e-mail threads (and indeed a fair amount of opinion). But the facts remain:

Wallace needed a lot of money. Eagle paid him much more than is standard for three different board games, one of which Wallace hadn't even designed yet, for a substantial $50,000. A short time later Wallace resold the same rights to one of those games to Mayfair.

Wallace owed Eagle/FRED first right-of-refusal for the as yet designed game. Wallace has subsequently designed and published many titles, never once offering them to FRED.

When, once again Wallace needed cash, FRED bailed him out (at his request) by buying up his surplus of Brass.

When Wallace asked FRED to sell Mordred for the TSUK charity, they did so at their expense (shipping and handling the games). Wallace later told them to stop selling the games and to ship the remainder back to him (insisting that FRED foot the bill). FRED made no profit on the sale of those games. All of the money brought in on those sales was subsequently sent to TSUK by FRED.

Wallace has an ongoing dispute with John Bohrer for the rights to Age of Steam. John legally owns those rights (whether or not this is 'right'), and FRED legally paid John for the right to reprint the original game. This is what prompted Wallace to publicly defame and lie about FRED.

You can get angry at FRED for 'price fixing', but know that they have repeatedly, over many years, done the right thing for Wallace (at times bending over backward for him).
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Scott Anderson
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aaxiom wrote:
Uh... a mediator's final decision would be binding, provided that both parties agree to mediation.

To ask the BGG community to mediate is kind of silly. Mediators that are bound to impartiality exist and are licensed to perform such actions.

Since it's apparent that both parties are not amenable to mediation, then that option is out of the question. The only alternative courses are to either drop it, or pursue the legal approach (which is darned expensive).

If I'm wrong about this (anyone an attorney?) kindly let me know.


Arbitration is generally binding. Mediation is not per se, but once a mediated settlement agreement is signed, the parties will be held to it.

Also, whether the parties are excited about the idea of mediation has almost no bearing... more and more courts are establishing rules requiring mandatory good-faith attempts to mediate before you can go to trial.

(Assuming I passed the bar this past July, I am kind-of-almost an attorney)
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John Reiners
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aaxiom wrote:
Uh... a mediator's final decision would be binding, provided that both parties agree to mediation.

To ask the BGG community to mediate is kind of silly. Mediators that are bound to impartiality exist and are licensed to perform such actions.

Since it's apparent that both parties are not amenable to mediation, then that option is out of the question. The only alternative courses are to either drop it, or pursue the legal approach (which is darned expensive).

If I'm wrong about this (anyone an attorney?) kindly let me know.


I think it's more of an issue that they have been defamed in this community and people have threatend to boycott them etc and they wanted to get their own case out to the people in this community who read Martin Wallace's comments about what crooks they were.And they think they have a case that Wallace is the one being unreasonable have the emails that they think prove their case and so want them out in the public record.

I will say, after reading the correspondence, I have a lot less sympathy for Wallace's argument (though admittedly, this is FRED's claims and there may be more to the story than what they presented)
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No, no no no. No, no. No, sir. I don't know what kinda vibe you think you got off me but I don't play that way. I'm not that way!
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FNH1 wrote:
After reading everything on that site, I say to both sides ...

Go to court. You're like two people talking who don't hear each other.

Go legal and let the professionals sort it out. Really, that will be the easiest and the best for everyone.


Except court is expensive, slow, creates bad publicity, and rarely makes the parties happy.
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That is not Depeche but rather
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MrSkeletor wrote:
I think it is quite clear who the best mediator on this site would be.

Me, the intergalactic hammer of fucking justice.

I'm impartial because both parties make stuff that bores the shit out of me, and no one is as good at being frank and fighting on behalf of others as me.
Plus I would make the whole thing far more entertaining. Judge Judy aint got shit on me.



It is at least undeniable that no one is better at being Frank than you are...

TR
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Richard Maurer
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ramkitty wrote:
I think they should go on judge judy. It would be hilareous.


Two guys arguing about board games in a court law, I don't think that Americans could handle that.
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John Reiners
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Someone should design a boardgame based around this epic battle. I'm envisioning a CDG much like Twilight Struggle only with board game designers and companies as the characters at odds over the rights to AOS.
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