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Subject: Thanks Games Workshop for having my files pulled rss

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Scott Everts
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Wow, just wow. I was just notified my Dungeonquest combat cards were pulled at the demand of Games Workshop.

An old game like this and they pulled the art? I've had that file up for ages and now its gone. I'm betting others will go too. I'm just amazed. What damage did they do? You can be sure I'll never do another play aid for any of their games.

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Luc Lauzon

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Are they preparing a new edition?
 
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Rick Vinyard
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Narendur wrote:
Are they preparing a new edition?

That's what I was wondering.
 
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Scott Everts
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I suppose this could be their way of telling us they are working on a new edition by having all play aids or other files that have any original game assets pulled off the net.

Same thing happened with Steve Jackson Games and Ogre. Supposedly they are working on a new edition so had a fan made edition pulled including art they didn't own or create.

As for this, I did adapt their original art to make the combat cards but certainly didn't do it for profit, just to replace worn originals I had from my copy and wanted to share them with other owners.

It's funny, many of the publishers I've done player aids for have been very kind and supportive. Some have even sent me free games as a thank you. But GW and SJG are the only ones from all the various play aids I've done that got pissy about it. Oh well, their loss.
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Richard Young
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ScottE wrote:
Oh well, their loss.

No, not their loss - which is what this is all about. Some people who charge for things we use to play with aren't always happy with those who do it for free, if there is some way to use the IP regime to prevent it...
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Scott Everts
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Bubslug wrote:
ScottE wrote:
Oh well, their loss.

No, not their loss - which is what this is all about. Some people who charge for things we use to play with aren't always happy with those who do it for free, if there is some way to use the IP regime to prevent it...
Some publishers just don't get it. Piss on your fans and your fans eventually go away. Certainly there are many things on this site that are suspect. Look at all the player aids that use art assets from games but are extremely useful for players. Good publishers will realize those free play aids help people play their games and are good for not only sales but gamer goodwill.
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Narendur wrote:
Are they preparing a new edition?
Who knows, but I don't think this is any indicator. I just had files pulled at GW's request for Talisman, 2nd ed. and Kings & Things...

And my files weren't even component replacements, just a card manifest for Talisman, and a turn-sequence aid for Kings & Things. So it looks like GW is just being a major pain in the rear. They probably hired a new lawyer.

So now not only will I not purchase and GW games (not new anyways), but I probably won't buy the remakes by other companies either...

Thanks GW!

> coughs to cover the nasty epithet <

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Scott Everts
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Yeah, a friend just emailed me telling me one of his files was removed and all the Lost Patrol files were removed.

They are slashing and burning everything on BGG!

Shame on you GW. You also lost another customer.
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Scott do not pay them attention. GW does always the same thing. I had some files also removed from FFG. Nevermind.

I think your cards are a lot better than the method of the game can you send them on PM. It will be a good addition to the game
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Drake Coker
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I blame Space Hulk! I suspect its success is causing GW to re-evaluate all of their old properties.
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Les Lauber
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Some charts I had posted for the FASA STAR TREK: STARSHIP TACTICAL COMBAT SIMULATOR were pulled, as well. GW is protecting their intellectual property. I'm not sure the value in pulling files relating to orphaned games, but then again, it is their intellectual property. They are acting within their rights.
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ScottE wrote:
Shame on you GW. You also lost another customer.

I hate to be the wet blanket here, but yes, you are the type of customer they want to lose. You cost support time.

There are tons of reasons to pull support files. The least of which being they don't want to have to review them to see if anyone has done them wrong and is somehow ruining their game. Easier to have them all pulled.

Otherwise, it could be they are setting a stage for precedent to prevent further unauthorized work on their games.

GW has always been absurdly protective of their work. They also overcharge.

It comes down to the fact that they have chosen the path of 1000 zombie players who will simply buy and not complain rather than 1100 players where 100 of them think and require support.

It is a viable, if not always pleasant, marketing strategy.



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Dane Barrett
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I had my flowcharts pulled from both DQ and Warlock of Firetop Mountain. I emailed Matt per the message I received and he confirmed that its general order for removal of files from GW. I won't begin to try and understand their motivations behind this, but I'm sure they had their reasons. I'd rather BGG not get in trouble for keeping the files though, so I'll just chalk this one up to experience.
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StephenAvery wrote:
Both of those games are going to be remade. It is an unfounded rumor but I'll stake my game collection on it.

Steve"80's gamefan"Avery

They are pulling all the files for all of their games from BGG.
If they are going to be remade I won't buy them.
I'm fed up with their "limited availability" and kicking their fans in the nuts like this! I guess the team of lawyers have to show some work!
The users on BGG have supported their games far longer than they did and this is the thanks you get. All the hard work from the fans just out the window. All the player aids from UniversalHead are gone. What a shameful thing to do!
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kronlin
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This seems the same tactics as EA uses installing SecuROM on all their recent PC games. Neither EA or GW trust their customers to use the content without redistributing it.

For EA, without copy protection, any cusstomer is a potential pirate, so they treat all their customers like pirates. For GW, if a customer is creating supplements, then that's a step towards complete reproduction of their IP, and must be stopped.

Customers have retaliated against EA. On amazon.com, reviewers have rated the average rating down to 1.5 stars, with reviews claiming they won't buy any game with SecuROM. BGG users may end up doing the same with GW games.
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Scott Everts
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I talked to one of the admins too and he confirmed GW threatened BGG on a wide range of titles. I'm assuming all their titles are affected. Also sounds like no new files will be allowed on any GW titles in the future.

I'm still shocked but there's nothing that can be done.

If anyone wants any of the various player aids I've done just email me and I'll send you a copy.
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I was notified that they zapped a file I had posted which had the official errata for The Fury of Dracula. I find it fairly amazing that they would want to prevent people from seeing errata for a game 20 years out of print, and with a licensed 2nd edition remake doing well.

I had hand typed the file, copying what I had received as errata more than 15 years ago. God forbid that I should share that errata with other gamers who want to play an out of print game.

Are those of us who like old GW games supposed to be penalized for some reason? How does that serve GW's interests today? In my case, they will find it counter-productive. Had this happened before I purchased Space Hulk (third edition), I probably would have chosen not to do so.
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Scott Everts
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Sphere wrote:
I was notified that they zapped a file I had posted which had the official errata for The Fury of Dracula. I find it fairly amazing that they would want to prevent people from seeing errata for a game 20 years out of print, and with a licensed 2nd edition remake doing well.

I had hand typed the file, copying what I had received as errata more than 15 years ago. God forbid that I should share that errata with other gamers who want to play an out of print game.

Are those of us who like old GW games supposed to be penalized for some reason? How does that serve GW's interests today? In my case, they will find it counter-productive. Had this happened before I purchased Space Hulk (third edition), I probably would have chosen not to do so.
An errata??? YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME!! yuk
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Joe
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If you have any questions about any GW games that might have been answered by the pulled play aids, FAQs, or errata, be sure to contact GW directly to get your questions answered:

1-800-394-4263
custserv@games-workshop.com

Preferably by phone, as emails can easily be deleted or ignored.

Maybe after their customer service inquries skyrocket, they will reconsider the value of having a resource like BGG to help support their products.
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kronlin wrote:
This seems the same tactics as EA uses installing SecuROM on all their recent PC games. Neither EA or GW trust their customers to use the content without redistributing it.

For EA, without copy protection, any cusstomer is a potential pirate, so they treat all their customers like pirates. For GW, if a customer is creating supplements, then that's a step towards complete reproduction of their IP, and must be stopped.

Customers have retaliated against EA. On amazon.com, reviewers have rated the average rating down to 1.5 stars, with reviews claiming they won't buy any game with SecuROM. BGG users may end up doing the same with GW games.

Here's the big difference. GW isn't getting upset about people redistributing GW's content. It's people distributing any and all upgrades to their content. I can understand GW removing a PNP version of their game... but a cardsheet? Ridiculous.

To back EA up... they've recently gotten completely hosed on their PC games. The best example is Demigod. When Demigod launched, the servers crashed over and over again for the multiplayer portion of the game. EA kept having to ask why. The real reason came out a little while later when the sales numbers for the first week pored in. For every person that bought the game... 8 PLAYED IT ONLINE!!! So, 7 out of every 8 people had stolen the game.

Don't lump game developers in with board game developers. I can't easily make a working copy of Puerto Rico for a friend. Even then, all I can do is give it to them. People can easily make a fully functional copy of 95% of PC games and distribute them to the world. Don't make EA a villain because they don't want to give away 7 out of every 8 games people play.
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Eric Franklin
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Here's what we can do about this (obviously, you'll need to tweak as appropriate):
e-mail to Custserv@games-workshop.com wrote:
To Whom It May Concern,

I am a Games Workshop customer, and have been for many years, now. I had a great run with my Warhammer Fantasy Battle Undead (later Vampire Counts) army, as well as my WH40k Squats army (for the short time it lasted). I have also run several local leagues for Blood Bowl, Necromunda, and Mordheim.

Recently, I have also enjoyed a number of GW-licensed products (including the Warhammer RPG, Chaos in the Old World Board Game, and the new Living Card Game) which were produced by Fantasy Flight Games.

I am not by any stretch your biggest customer, but I have been a reliable customer for well over twenty years, and have spent several thousand dollars over that period of time. I have also, by running leagues, encouraged a number of my friends to invest in GW products as well.

However, your recent actions towards fan-created materials on Boardgamegeek.com and other sites (see http://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/48933 and http://www.geekdo.com/thread/467048) are troublesome. For the last several years, many of these (now removed) resources have been nearly critical in the running of my leagues. They’ve provided a wealth of non-official ideas, variants, scenarios, and so on.

It is beginning to seem as though you have lost sight of the fact that gaming is a niche industry that is driven by hobbyists and enthusiasts.

To that end, I am joining the rising number of voices who are participating in a boycott of your products (and those products based on GW-licensed products), and I will be encouraging my friends to do the same. I have no beef with Fantasy Flight Games, and will continue to purchase their (non-GW-licensed) product.

I will be watching BoardGameGeek (and other sites) for signs of a change or reversal in your policy. Should that change come, I will end my boycott.

Thank you for taking the time to read this,

Eric Franklin
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Quote:
To back EA up... they've recently gotten completely hosed on their PC games. The best example is Demigod. When Demigod launched, the servers crashed over and over again for the multiplayer portion of the game. EA kept having to ask why. The real reason came out a little while later when the sales numbers for the first week pored in. For every person that bought the game... 8 PLAYED IT ONLINE!!! So, 7 out of every 8 people had stolen the game.

Demigod was developed by Gas Powered Games and published by Stardock (a company with a very different stance on DRM than EA) in the US or Atari in Europe. I'm not saying EA is wrong trying to protect its products, just pointing there's no direct relation with Demigod...

I don't understand quite well this recent surge of IP inquisition by GW. Blood bowl fansite closed, BBG files removed... If it's only a show-off of their legal muscle, then I say they deserve as much blame a possible from people who are trying to play their games despite GW doing all they can to prevent it. It it means GW is making a massive come back in the boardgame world... Then I'd say it's not the best avertising I've seen.
The sad truth is surely close to the 1000 zombies vs 1100 customers theory...
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I've now discovered a new reason to have a collection nearing 1000 titles.

I can play another company's games and not miss Games Workshop one bit.
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ScottE wrote:
I talked to one of the admins too and he confirmed GW threatened BGG on a wide range of titles. I'm assuming all their titles are affected.

If I'm looking right all Space Hulk (third edition) fanmade addons (1st edition tiles in 3rd edition design for example) have been pulled, too.
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So, what can we do about it?

- All write emails like Gamethyme proposed above?
- All phone their support hotline?
- Boycott buying their games?
- Boycott playing their games?
- Downrate all their products on BGG?
- Bash them in any thread here on BGG?

I think i would refrain from the last two options at least. What do you think? More suggestions?
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