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Subject: Indoor Fireworks Math Trade -- Discussion List rss

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Albert
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"We play these parlor games, we play at make believe..." - Elvis Costello


Trade GeekList: http://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/56399
Request GeekList: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/56400
Discussion: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/5236761

Use of the On-Line Want List Generator (OLWLG) is required for this event (please remember to tip JeffyJeff some GG for his support).

Key dates (all times are CENTRAL TIME)

Open for posting games: Now until Friday, July 9th (10pm)

Want list submission period: Friday, July 9th (10pm) until Sunday, July 11th (10pm) - no extensions!

Results posted within an hour thereafter.


Please do not delete items or sweeteners once you have listed them. You can always submit a blank want list for an entry if you've traded it away before the deadline.

OK - some simple rules - please take a few minutes to read them:


d10-1 In the event of uncertainty, I will use the following mechanism to judge if an item can be included:

In print new games:

I shall go in order down the following list, taking the first value I find.

1) CoolStuffInc price
2) Boards & Bits price
3) Game Surplus price
4) BGG Marketplace history

If you know that an item is only available somewhere else, please point that out to me.

In print used games:

1) BGG Marketplace history

Out of print games:

1) BGG Marketplace history - items not sold in the past year in the Marketplace will be treated more leniently as their value has probably risen
2) Noble Knight (may also be used if a game hasn't sold in the Marketplace for some time)
3) Troll & Toad (may also be used if a game hasn't sold in the Marketplace for some time)

Exception:

- If a game is available only through an outlet not covered above, I will use that price.

Under no circumstances will MSRP be used in valuations, unless it is unavailable anywhere else at a discounted price.

The moderator reserves the right to make all final decisions on this.

Packaging games is fine, but each listing must have at least one item valued at $21 or more using the aforementioned methods.

d10-2 Gift certificates, Geekgold, DVDs, items outside the scope of BGG etc are all permitted.

d10-3 Gift certificate and GG arbitrage are NOT allowed. Neither are cash offerings. If arbitage is found in the preliminary math trades results, the offending items will be removed and the results will be re-run.

d10-4 Non-game entries must be added as "Outside the Scope of BGG" (game id 23953) or "Miscellaneous Game Accessory" (game id 5985) and must include the +altname+ brief description -altname- format in the description of your item.

d10-5 You are expected to describe, as accurately as is reasonably possible, the condition (components and box), language and edition of your item in the description. This includes sweeteners if they are physical items (i.e. not GG).

For games not brand new (in shrink) you must inventory the game's components and list anything missing. Do not assume it's complete. Also, remember that just because something is "new in shrink" that doesn't mean that you shouldn't disclose any dings. It might not matter to you, but it matters to some people.

If the game and/or expansion you are listing is a "Print & Play" make that clear in the description (and I recommend you give specifics what it was printed on, mounted on, etc).

If you are listing an expansion if you reference the base game in the description be clear one way or the other if you are including the base game or not. Do not include a link to the base game unless you are including it as this looks, in the OLWLG, as if you are.

d10-6 You must clearly state your shipping policy in your listing. You are not required to ship outside of your own country but your shipping restrictions outside of your own country must be clearly stated and if you are not covering full shipping elsewhere, then you must state precisely how much of the shipping you will cover.

You are not permitted to require a specific amount for shipping from the recipient and must cover at least the first $5 of shipping costs for items you send out. "Mirror shipping" is not allowed.

Any ambiguity will be interpreted as generosity on your part. This means that if you don't include a shipping policy, then it is assumed that you will ship anywhere in the world for free!

d10-7 Sweeteners are to be listed using the "Insert Geek Link" dropdown or you can manually insert the GAMEID using BGG formatting. If you don't use this format your sweeteners won't show up in the OLWLG properly.

d10-8 If you've been reported to me as a bad trader, you cannot participate. If you try to, I will remove your entries.

d10-9 Please do NOT include links to other games in your entry unless you are actually including them as a sweetener, as this is displayed in a misleading manner by the OLWLG.

d10-1d10-0 If you feel the need to use them, please keep disclaimers short and to the point so they don't make things hard to read. If you need to use a longer disclaimer, please include a link to it in each of your entries instead of copying the whole thing into each entry - thanks.

d10-1d10-1 Finally - you are expected to periodically check during the item submission period, and preferably during the want list submission period, to see if anyone has commented on your entries. People often ask questions of items - most commonly because you have forgotten to state a version, language or shipping policy - and you should check in to address such questions in a timely manner should they arise, so that everyone then has the correct information available.

You will NOT be able to respond to comments in the GeekList once it is locked down and the submission period begins.

Other useful information

OLWLG Help: http://boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/OLWLG

Software Used: TradeMaximizer 1.4 with duplicate protection. SEED=1234567, ITERATIONS=100, METRIC=USERS-TRADING


Geekgold restrictions:

Users may not post more geekgold than they currently have. Geekgold arbitrage is not allowed.


Key dates (all times are CENTRAL TIME)

Open for posting games: Now until Friday, July 9th (10pm)

Want list submission period: Friday, July 9th (10pm) until Sunday, July 11th (10pm) - no extensions!

Results posted within an hour thereafter.


Want list submission

Submissions may be made at any time after the 19th at 10am, but only by the OLWLG. If you will be unavailable during the want list submission period but still wish to participate, contact me directly and we can discuss alternatives.

Note: only errors by the moderator, will invalidate the results.

Also in the case that there is a problem after the results are posted, at most it will only invalidate the affected trade chain(s) and not the entire results set. In addition if the problem can be resolved by the most directly affected party or parties, then that is perfectly acceptable.

Please note that it's best to work on your want list and submit them early - you can always make changes and resubmit later. This will prevent you from being left out if you forget the deadline.

Also: Creating want lists is not the same as submitting them. To submit them you will need to click on the "Submit My Wants" button. If you're not sure how to find this, consult the documentation referenced above or ask in the discussion thread.


When you submit your want lists, you will receive a confirming GeekMail. If you don't get one, your want lists haven't been submitted. Your want lists in the GeekMail may be truncated - this is fine.

Thanks for reading to the bottom here - you may be in a minority.

Please enter lots of items and have some fun with this. Good luck!

%Options%
Deadline-Offers: Friday, July 9th, 2010, 10:00 PM CDT
Deadline-Wants: Sunday, July 11th, 2010, 10:00 PM CDT
%End%
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Albert
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With less than an hour to go:

# MISSING 20 WANTS (2.8%) FROM 6 USER(s) (3.7%):
# boathouselooper (7)
# Dimaradona (7)
# frutos (2)
# gesa (1)
# railbaron (1)
# Trump (2)
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Albert
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Official Results:
http://bgg.activityclub.org/olwlg/trades-summary.cgi?listid=...

Most Wanted:
http://bgg.activityclub.org/olwlg/mostwanted.cgi?listid=5639...
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Albert
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Reserved.
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Steffan O'Sullivan
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I have some out-of-print games with NO price history or listing for sale anywhere in the world. I assume I can enter these, yes?
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Not really Ryan Leaf
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THANK YOU!
 
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Albert
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sos1 wrote:
I have some out-of-print games with NO price history or listing for sale anywhere in the world. I assume I can enter these, yes?


Go for it!
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Your timing for the trade is pretty quick. I would have loved to participate but I'll be out of town for the whole list. Have fun. I'll catch the next one.
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Lou Seelbach
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So how much geekgold does it take to equal $21?
 
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Andrew Tullsen
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Lou-Dawg wrote:
So how much geekgold does it take to equal $21?


$21
@~15GG per $1
=315 GG
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Bill Johnston
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Always glad for another math trade, but I would thumb this for the Elvis Costello reference alone.
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Stephen Sanders
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Just FYI to any potential participants I am getting old zombie and have determined to pare down my collection. This means I might be offering trade deals that are potentially unbalanced in ya'lls favor (i.e., I have traded Age of Steam for Vegas Showdown). This just tends to happen when you turn 50 and your gaming friends become scarcer. I have put in requests on the list there, but will also be considering other games [EDIT] on my wishlist.
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Ryan Gatti
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Howitzer_120mm wrote:
Lou-Dawg wrote:
So how much geekgold does it take to equal $21?


$21
@~15GG per $1
=315 GG

Can I object to this valuation?

I realize that this is roughly the going rate for GG for cash/PayPal exchanges in the GG Auction section, but unless BGG actually has a Bank of GG setup to make these exchanges on-demand (which is doesn't and very likely never will), then this valuation very likely varies from user-to-user and depending on the context. It also doesn't scale linearly.

It's fine, if this is what the moderator wants, but I don't think GG Auctions are sufficient grounds for a consensus on universal valuation.
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Lou Seelbach
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rgatti wrote:
Howitzer_120mm wrote:
Lou-Dawg wrote:
So how much geekgold does it take to equal $21?


$21
@~15GG per $1
=315 GG

Can I object to this valuation?

I realize that this is roughly the going rate for GG for cash/PayPal exchanges in the GG Auction section, but unless BGG actually has a Bank of GG setup to make these exchanges on-demand (which is doesn't and very likely never will), then this valuation very likely varies from user-to-user and depending on the context. It also doesn't scale linearly.

It's fine, if this is what the moderator wants, but I don't think GG Auctions are sufficient grounds for a consensus on universal valuation.


Well...the admin of this MT has set a minimum value that must be offered ($21), so we need to know what the minimum GG offer is.
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George Buss
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Lou-Dawg wrote:
rgatti wrote:
Howitzer_120mm wrote:
Lou-Dawg wrote:
So how much geekgold does it take to equal $21?


$21
@~15GG per $1
=315 GG

Can I object to this valuation?

I realize that this is roughly the going rate for GG for cash/PayPal exchanges in the GG Auction section, but unless BGG actually has a Bank of GG setup to make these exchanges on-demand (which is doesn't and very likely never will), then this valuation very likely varies from user-to-user and depending on the context. It also doesn't scale linearly.

It's fine, if this is what the moderator wants, but I don't think GG Auctions are sufficient grounds for a consensus on universal valuation.


Well...the admin of this MT has set a minimum value that must be offered ($21), so we need to know what the minimum GG offer is.


Does that need to be set by the moderator, or can the community decide that through it's want lists?

Obviously if the community of traders decides that they are not willing to trade their over $21 game for under 300 gg then the community has decided what they feel the value of gg is.

If they are willing to trade their over $21 game for 200gg, than the value may be higher per gg according to the community.

GG may be involved in transactions where people pay cash in return for gg, but the value is not set, nor is it moderated for inflation, etc... There is no true cash value of gg... Just what the going rate is at any given moment in history...

Let the community decide it's value.
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Jason Epp
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I'm noticing some bundles that when combined meet the minimum value, however the rules that that at least one of the items has to have a $21 value on it's own (which some don't). I would interpret that as anything less than a $21 value can only be added as a sweetener, along with a main item worth the $21+ on it's own... am I understanding that correctly?

By the way, I'm fine with bundles of "lesser" games as long as the total value is $21+, but would like clarification before putting together a few bundles of my own... thanks!
 
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Albert
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Lou-Dawg wrote:
So how much geekgold does it take to equal $21?


Regarding GG, To keep it simple, I'm going to go with 210 Geek Gold as the minimum allowed. While this may be a bit lower than the 'going rate', I think the market will determine it's value in a math trade. Besides, I think GG circulation is a good thing.
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Daniel Corban
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For what it's worth, GG was going for a rate of 7 per $1 for years. I don't know when this inflation happened, but it seems odd to question the fair market value of GG if that is indeed what the going rate is in auctions.
 
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Albert
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jepp wrote:
I'm noticing some bundles that when combined meet the minimum value, however the rules that that at least one of the items has to have a $21 value on it's own (which some don't). I would interpret that as anything less than a $21 value can only be added as a sweetener, along with a main item worth the $21+ on it's own... am I understanding that correctly?

By the way, I'm fine with bundles of "lesser" games as long as the total value is $21+, but would like clarification before putting together a few bundles of my own... thanks!


No, you are correct, however I've told at least one individual that I would allow 'lesser' games if they are related (eg. a collection of $15 Arkham Horror Expansions), so as to not break up a set.

Otherwise, let me know if you see any obvious 'offenders', otherwise, I'd like to stick with the rule that listings should have at least one item worth $21. Anything less, should be either listed in the "Small Games" MT, or saved until the next unrestricted MT.

EDIT: And if you're still not sure if your items qualify for this MT, send me a quick email and I'll let you know what I think.
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Jeff Michaud
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did I miss a tanga or other deal on Assyria? I see 4 copies and counting so far and all new in shrink. they'll all be on my want lists regardless (w/dup protection of course )

and yea, Andy likes to quote small cash amounts for GG auctions to under value GG... the value of GG is more for larger cash amounts and even more when bidding on GG auctions on real items (games, etc). Don't know why he wants to under value the GG though, he's got over 2,500 GG in his bank! maybe trying to avoid paying taxes on it
 
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JeffyJeff wrote:
did I miss a tanga or other deal on Assyria? I see 4 copies and counting so far and all new in shrink. they'll all be on my want lists regardless (w/dup protection of course )

and yea, Andy likes to quote small cash amounts for GG auctions to under value GG... the value of GG is more for larger cash amounts and even more when bidding on GG auctions on real items (games, etc). Don't know why he wants to under value the GG though, he's got over 2,500 GG in his bank! maybe trying to avoid paying taxes on it


I believe Assyria was a free give-away at Origins.

The GG auctions have been going at around 14/$1 to 15/$1 for the last couple of months.
 
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George Buss
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JeffyJeff wrote:
did I miss a tanga or other deal on Assyria? I see 4 copies and counting so far and all new in shrink. they'll all be on my want lists regardless (w/dup protection of course )

and yea, Andy likes to quote small cash amounts for GG auctions to under value GG... the value of GG is more for larger cash amounts and even more when bidding on GG auctions on real items (games, etc). Don't know why he wants to under value the GG though, he's got over 2,500 GG in his bank! maybe trying to avoid paying taxes on it


Jeff, how do you know how much gg someone has... am I missing it somewhere?

Edit: Nevermind, I figured it out.
 
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mbuckingham wrote:
JeffyJeff wrote:
did I miss a tanga or other deal on Assyria? I see 4 copies and counting so far and all new in shrink. they'll all be on my want lists regardless (w/dup protection of course )

and yea, Andy likes to quote small cash amounts for GG auctions to under value GG... the value of GG is more for larger cash amounts and even more when bidding on GG auctions on real items (games, etc). Don't know why he wants to under value the GG though, he's got over 2,500 GG in his bank! maybe trying to avoid paying taxes on it


I believe Assyria was a free give-away at Origins.

The GG auctions have been going at around 14/$1 to 15/$1 for the last couple of months.

ah, that explains it!

please read above... 14 or 15 GG per $1 again is for small cash amounts! it's much stronger than that when the auction is for a real item (and in between the two the larger the cash amount is as you get rid of the small players)
 
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Albert
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As I'm looking over listings to make sure that they are in compliance, I'm pretty surprised at some of the prices I'm coming across (eg. Odin's Ravens, China, etc). Who knew?

Anyway, as I'm commenting on items that seem to fall under the $21 threshold, I hope no one feels like they are being picked on. I just don't want BugLaden's "Small Game MT" to suffer because of this one. Besides, I'm only trying to enforce the rules I've laid out.


Oh, and I did land an in-shrink copy of Space Alert in the last MT for only 250 GG, so there is hope
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Bill Johnston
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aksosa wrote:
As I'm looking over listings to make sure that they are in compliance, I'm pretty surprised at some of the prices I'm coming across (eg. Odin's Ravens, China, etc). Who knew?


I had the same experience during the High & Mighty math trade. Lots of things in there I didn't realize had gone OOP, and thus shot up in value.
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