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Subject: PARANOIA: MISSION 5 - MISSION COMPLETE! rss

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Kristie Satterly
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Re: PARANOIA: MISSION 5 - Round 10: Oh my Computer, a Mutant died!
wow Yikes.
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Brian Thomas
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Re: PARANOIA: MISSION 5 - Round 10: Oh my Computer, a Mutant died!
Congrats to Kristie and Statsig! Well done.

and thanks to the RNG for allowing me to still be in the running for first to make yellow.

Teh - I feel your pain. Actually, I felt it day 1 when 2 of my supposed teammates shot me in the back - sometimes you just get a raw deal. Such is Paranoia.
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Kristie Satterly
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Re: PARANOIA: MISSION 5 - Round 10: Oh my Computer, a Mutant died!
bwt2q wrote:
Congrats to Kristie and Statsig! Well done.

and thanks to the RNG for allowing me to still be in the running for first to make yellow.

Teh - I feel your pain. Actually, I felt it day 1 when 2 of my supposed teammates shot me in the back - sometimes you just get a raw deal. Such is Paranoia.


Start off the game killing 2 Illuminati, and end the game with 2 alive... strange luck, yes.

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Amanda Fabulous
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Re: PARANOIA: MISSION 5 - Round 10: Oh my Computer, a Mutant died!
Seriously? I die of my wounds after one round. No offense to Stat, but why won't that guy die?!?
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Re: PARANOIA: MISSION 5 - Round 10: Oh my Computer, a Mutant died!
Oh wow, that was a much faster end than I expected. I was sure I was going to bleed out before it was over!

Congrats to Kristie, a fantastic team organizer. And sympathies to TBG, who really did work hard through this game, and it sucks that he gotten taken out by random circumstances (though that's sort of the name of the game, as anyone who died of a wound can tell you).

Orange! Now I *have* to play next game.
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Ken H.
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Re: PARANOIA: MISSION 5 - Round 10: Oh my Computer, a Mutant died!
TheSparky wrote:
Kristie-O-FIX-3 (Illuminati Mutant)
STAT-O-SIG-2 (Illuminati Mutant)


Congrats!

I didn't have much contact with Stat, but Kristie was definitely a major force in this game (at least from my point of view). Good job, and a well deserved victory.


Quote:
Chick-R-KUL-3, the Death Leopard Telepath and Teh-O-GUY-1, the Illuminati Mutant have perished for a want of medical attention.


shake

...both of whom also deserved to win. I really don't like the "die from your wounds" rule.

But, I had a blast in this game, even though I had a near-ZERO chance to win after Turn 2.

At one point, I thought Kristie and Kuchick had pulled off a huge lie against me. Would have been really impressive if true, but it turns out I was just being really paranoid. I still wasn't completely sure until now, though.

 
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kuchick wrote:
Seriously? I die of my wounds after one round. No offense to Stat, but why won't that guy die?!?


I run on 100% badass.

No offense taken, I really have sympathy for those who took wounds or died of 'em due to the RNG. That's a hard way to lose.
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Kristie Satterly
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Rubric wrote:
TheSparky wrote:
Kristie-O-FIX-3 (Illuminati Mutant)
STAT-O-SIG-2 (Illuminati Mutant)


Congrats!

I didn't have much contact with Stat, but Kristie was definitely a major force in this game (at least from my point of view). Good job, and a well deserved victory.


Quote:
Chick-R-KUL-3, the Death Leopard Telepath and Teh-O-GUY-1, the Illuminati Mutant have perished for a want of medical attention.


shake

...both of whom also deserved to win. I really don't like the "die from your wounds" rule.

But, I had a blast in this game, even though I had a near-ZERO chance to win after Turn 2.

At one point, I thought Kristie and Kuchick had pulled off a huge lie against me. Would have been really impressive if true, but it turns out I was just being really paranoid. I still wasn't completely sure until now, though.



kiss
 
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Teh-O-GUY-3
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*sigh*

Oh well, my team won it.

It was like 4% that I'd lose at that point too... soblue
 
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Teh-O-GUY-3
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I hate to live up to the then-Stat-R's trickery PM on Lay-R, but I'm just... ugh.

If I screwed it up, I'd be fine. But losing like this is just so frustrating. I played a near-perfect game, (Really, I should've been shot so many times) and yet I lost. I spent sooooo much time on this for nothing, and I'm really POd and sad.


Someone's probably gonna hate me for this, but IDC. If you actually feel bad I lost, do one thing:

Let me have a chance. I really don't want to get gunned down early next game. (nobody does) Simply put, don't shoot me in the first 3-4 rounds.
 
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David Kempe-Cook
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I have a question regarding end conditions. I didn't duck as I should have, but if I did, couldn't Stat, Chick, and Teh all die leaving 2 people with no shared alignment?
 
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The Rules wrote:
Ending the Game: The game ends as soon as any of the following are true:

-- The only players left alive all share a single common Secret Society. When this occurs, the game is over and the surviving players win.* (The slain members of the surviving Society DO NOT win -- their steaming remains receive no gratification from the survival of their fellow Society members.)

-- Only one player is left alive. In that case, that player wins.

-- ALL players are dead. In that case, no one wins.

-- There are only 2 players left, they are not part of a common Secret Society, and neither can kill or successfully Propagandize the other. In that case, the mission is over. The two survivors automatically blame each other for the mission's failure, and both are executed for treason. In this case, again, no one wins.

* Unless there is an Internal Security Plant among the surviving players -- in which case, as soon as they return to Mission Central, the IntSec Plant betrays all his fellow survivors to their deaths, leaving him as the sole survivor and winner. (Unless there are multiple IntSec Plants among the survivors, in which case, see the IntSec Plant role description, above.)
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sydwys8 wrote:
I didn't duck as I should have,


Thanks for that, by the way. thumbsup That's why I sent you that BS message about coordinating fire on TBG, I was just trying to get you to not-duck. But it looks like you just forgot to submit orders instead; and I spent so long on that letter! XD
 
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StatSig wrote:
sydwys8 wrote:
I didn't duck as I should have,


Thanks for that, by the way. thumbsup That's why I sent you that BS message about coordinating fire on TBG, I was just trying to get you to not-duck. But it looks like you just forgot to submit orders instead; and I spent so long on that letter! XD


"So long" being, like, five whole minutes. I'll never have them back!
 
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Brian Thomas
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As of yesterday, I think I was still in favor of "dying from your wounds". But I've been thinking about it, and I'm becoming less in favor. It is such a negative way to go out, and leaves a bad taste in your mouth.

Granted, no one is going to claim that Paranoia is really fair, or balanced. or designed to make the maximum number of players happy. I mean, the vast majority of players are going to die, and for most of them, it will be via betrayal, which isn't so happy either. But that kind of death leaves you wanting to come back and try again. Dying from a Rad wound and a bad roll is just frustrating.

The flip side of this is that being wounded should have some repercussions, and I think it's reasonable that wounding is more than half a kill. Looking at it from the other side, if you go to the effort to get someone wounded, it should do more than just make them die if you wound them again. Also, it is part of the game that you need to find someone who can heal you (soldiers) and convince them that they want to do so. Eliminating the danger of wounds eliminates this part of the game (although some might argue that soldiers are overpowered anyway).

I see several possible ways to mitigate the danger from wounding:

1) Decrease the probability of dying from wounds.
Simply decreasing the chance of dying from 33% to 10-15% would give wounded players more hope, but would keep the random visciousness that we know and love in the game system. Alternately, make the initial chance of dying low (10% ?), and then have it ramp up each round (say, +5% each round).

2) Increase the availability of Heals.
This could include adding a medpack to the Vanilla equipment list, adding in a mutant heal others power, or even making it possible for the Rad sector radiation to have a small percentage chance of healing rather than wounding.

3) Change the disadvantage conveyed by wounding
This means changing the rules, which I'm not a big proponent of because the rules seem to work pretty well as written. With that caveat, here are 2 options:
3a) Wounds do not randomly cause death. Instead, the destruction of the armor caused during the wounding leaves the player vulnerable - if the player is shot by only 1 other player, he has a chance of dying (50% ? maybe less).

3b) Wounds do not randomly cause death. Instead, wounded players have an increased chance to be picked for radiation wounding (here, I'd give them either 2 or 3 entries in the rad wounding lottery - probably 3).
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Brian Thomas
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One more thing:
Big kudos to Sparky for running this! I thought that the "secret societies" were an awesome twist to the game. Having two new ones and one old one was the perfect balance (even though that's what got me killed, since I started claiming not DL to a few people).
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Ken H.
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bwt2q wrote:
As of yesterday, I think I was still in favor of "dying from your wounds". But I've been thinking about it, and I'm becoming less in favor. It is such a negative way to go out, and leaves a bad taste in your mouth.


I died of wounds in one of the early Ze Weeg games, and protested it then. So, I've died of wounds twice, and been back-stabbed three times (or front-stabbed maybe). Both suck, but you're absolutely right, dying of wounds is just annoying, whereas the dying of a massive betrayal is kind of cool in a way (though probably not if it's on the first turn -- sorry about that).

From my point of view, it's even worse when you are wounded early in the game. First, you know you have no chance to win, and second, nobody is going to bother shooting you because they know you're going to die on your own. So, I basically had to keep playing a hopeless game for, what, five or six turns? I was having fun (mostly), but I can't say I didn't consider dropping out -- not officially (as in requesting a replacement), but just basically lowering the participation level to the minimum. I really still don't know why I spent so much time on it.

Quote:
I see several possible ways to mitigate the danger from wounding:

1) Decrease the probability of dying from wounds.


I don't think this solves the problem, and would actually make the bad dice rolls even more annoying than they already are.


Quote:
2) Increase the availability of Heals.
This could include adding a medpack to the Vanilla equipment list, adding in a mutant heal others power, or even making it possible for the Rad sector radiation to have a small percentage chance of healing rather than wounding.


I like this one. I say give everybody one medpack (not usable on yourself). Soldiers would retain the ability to do one extra Heal, and of course the mutant/vanilla abilities are still better because they allow self-heals. Global medpacks would increase the need for teamwork, as well as the opportunity for betrayal. Perfect fit!

I also suggested allowing a chance of spontaneous self-healing, meaning no action is required. That is, you just suddenly get better after a while. Wounds would still carry a chance of dying, but the chance is only temporary. This would eliminate the hopelessness of my situation from this game. It also creates an interesting tactical choice -- do you shoot the wounded guy while he is vulnerable (needs one less laser), or do you hope he dies? The same question is present under current rules, but is not interesting because the player definitely will die at some point, at least if it's early in the game. If he has a chance of getting better, the question is much more interesting.

Quote:
3) Change the disadvantage conveyed by wounding
This means changing the rules, which I'm not a big proponent of because the rules seem to work pretty well as written. With that caveat, here are 2 options:
3a) Wounds do not randomly cause death. Instead, the destruction of the armor caused during the wounding leaves the player vulnerable - if the player is shot by only 1 other player, he has a chance of dying (50% ? maybe less).


Might work. You're basically just dropping half of the current rule, and keeping the other half. So, it's not that big of a change.

Quote:
3b) Wounds do not randomly cause death. Instead, wounded players have an increased chance to be picked for radiation wounding (here, I'd give them either 2 or 3 entries in the rad wounding lottery - probably 3).


Radiation wounding is pretty rare, but maybe this type of rule would change tactics enough to make it more common.

Anyway, I really like this game. In fact, it kind of puts me off of playing regular werewolf because I just like it so much better. I just think this particular rule is not fun.

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Amanda Fabulous
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I think the wounds should make people more vulnerable to future attack.. it takes fewer laswers or the %age if there are fewer lasers,.. something.

I do not think people should just die over time from the wounds.. it should take another actor.

or if they are giong to die over time, Rubric should die in fewer than 5 days, and I should die in more than 1. I had this big plan to accuse Kristie of secretly being int-sec plant or something when the game didn't end after lay-r died. I doubt it would've worked,but I was really looking forward to it.
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Consider the Dying of Wounds rule wounded, then. There's a 33% chance it'll be changed before the next Mission

If you'd like to add your own opinion, be it taking out the rule entirely, modifying it, or leaving it alone, feel free to post it or send me a PM if you don't want it public.

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Great job to all the long-livers in this one.

I like the idea of wounding reducing the amount of shots needed to kill you - two more for a sure kill, one shot risks death. With the rules as they are right now, if someone is wounded you just leave them be, because they'll likely fall over before the game ends. Maybe there could be an action available for a wounded player, like "lay low" -- take no action that turn and dice roll for recovery.
 
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I think the wounded rule is just as fair as in any role playing game. There is a chance you will die of your wounds, eh? How lucky are you?

If you are going to change it though, so far I like:
1. Making it ramp up. Day 1 20% chance of death, Day 2 25%, etc. Because you are bleeding out without medical attention. But really all this does is help your odds, if you are unlucky at the dice you still die. But, hey, if you are unlucky in life you die too, eh?
2. 2 "wounds" = a death or something. So, if I am wounded and someone hits me with another shot, I die. Too much blood loss lol.
3. I do like having a medpack for a Vanilla or a healing power for a mutant. The soldiers get 1 snipe, 1 heal. So a medpack/healer would be 2-3 heals that can be used together (in one turn) or individually. This would be in line with the negotiation of staying alive, but should be random if it is actually in the game or not (just like any of the other powers).


Also, as a blanket comment to the mutants. Yes, I was annoyed that I got shot on the one turn that the mutants said they needed me to shoot and not use my defense. It made me think that it was possible one of the mutants betrayed me. I will need to read the notes post-game to see I suppose and plan my revenge or apologies accordingly.
 
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bwt2q wrote:
Congrats to Kristie and Statsig! Well done.

and thanks to the RNG for allowing me to still be in the running for first to make yellow.

Teh - I feel your pain. Actually, I felt it day 1 when 2 of my supposed teammates shot me in the back - sometimes you just get a raw deal. Such is Paranoia.


Sometimes? That's a lot with me. This game I lasted as long by Sympathy and Pity

---

Was it a mutant mind control that sniped me?

---

Grats to the Female Alliance (as Stat replaced Teh )

---

In regards to wounds, for some reason I thought that if you were wounded and at least one person died that round, you were safe. But maybe I just never noticed because a.) I've never been wounded, because b.) I've died each time they shot me!

Give people more heals? Ugh. No.

Reason 1.) People will not be shooting. That means the game goes longer.
Reason 2.) People will be living longer. That means the game goes longer.
Reason 3.) Longer games mean more emails to keep up with. More admin for the Mod.
Reason 4.) It lessens the paranoia, because you have more recovery. Just doesn't feel within the spirit.

If anything, give the Heal ability of a Solider as an action they can take in addition to whatever normal ability they have. Then you'd see them use it more.

Just my two cents.
 
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Teh-O-GUY-3
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I sniped you personally, and out of my own free will, (Note: I'm using it as an expression. I have no will other than the Computer's.) FYI. We were counter-aligned, you were the last Orange besides me, and DL was doing way too good. It was far and away my - and the mutants - best plan.

Remember, we agreed on extending our truce D2. I didn't shoot you in the head until D4. I kept the truce.

And I just realized how much this post summarizes the game of PARANOIA.


I'm still ticked over my loss, but I'm getting past it. I really lucked out last time, and I sorta didn't deserve it. Now I did but died, so it evens out.
 
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Teh Brawl Guy wrote:
I'm still ticked over my loss, but I'm getting past it. I really lucked out last time, and I sorta didn't deserve it. Now I did but died, so it evens out.
People who feel they "deserve" or "earned" a win are always the most fun ones to backstab.
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