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Combat Commander: Resistance!» Forums » General

Subject: Where is the Warsaw Uprising? rss

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Mike Smith
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Hold on there! Where is the scenario from the '44 Uprising? We could have little miniature tanks then (Goliaths...). Seriously, the Uprising is a very emotive subject, and I expected a scenario...even a campaign, based on it. When I saw sewers I immediatley thought Warsaw, but then I checked the proposed scenario list and nix..
Hav'nt Chad and co. seen "Kanal"?
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Joe C Faust
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Campaigns ususlly come in Battle Packs. I would say this bodes well for Battle Pack #5: Warsaw.

I myself am waiting for another Pacific Battle Pack... #6: Headhunters!
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Richard Pardoe
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John Foley has posted comments on the scenario selection over at CSW.
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Mike Smith
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Hmm, so Joe, you are telling me its good news there are no Warsaw scenarios... You might just be right.
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Mike Smith
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OK, thanks Richard. I just checked out the CSW discussion. I had not realised this ground had already been trodden over there. I suppose I should have guessed.
Of course you can RSG your own Warsaw scenarios - but the philosophy of scenario selection in previous CC games and battlepacks seemed to be that due tribute would be paid to important protagonists and signature situations by representing them in the microcosm of a pre-prepared scenario. Warsaw seems to encapsulate all the hope and tragedy of full-scale military resistance.
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Ryszard Tokarczuk
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Not only Warsaw Uprising (1944), also uprising in Warsaw Ghetto (1943) is a possibility. Given the selection of scenarios in Resistance and my own nationality, I hope to tinker a little with maps (in a spirit of Stalingrad maps) and counters and try to come up with something, once "gamette" will be released. I`m not professional designer... but it can be done and, I feel myself, it should be done.
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Mike Smith
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I am still hoping they will realise it is a mistake not to have included a Warsaw scenario in the first place...
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Andrew Laws
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Mantuanwar wrote:
I am still hoping they will realise it is a mistake not to have included a Warsaw scenario in the first place...


And then do what?
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Mike Smith
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Its not printed yet is it? They can do the "Home Army" justice and put such a scenario in!
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Art Bugorski
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I too would love to see a Warsaw uprising scenario. My grandfathers fought it in it and I would love to learn more by experiencing it second-hand.

If, they aren't planning to do anything special for the Warsaw uprising and merely overlooked it then I am appalled. Wasn't it one of the most historic instances resistance in WWII? angry

The hopeful part of my is hoping that they realised they'd need a fairly specific map setup to make the whole thing work and that it'd be better off as its own thing that something shared with other scenarios.
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John McLintock
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RyTo wrote:
Not only Warsaw Uprising (1944), also uprising in Warsaw Ghetto (1943) is a possibility. Given the selection of scenarios in Resistance and my own nationality, I hope to tinker a little with maps (in a spirit of Stalingrad maps) and counters and try to come up with something, once "gamette" will be released. I`m not professional designer... but it can be done and, I feel myself, it should be done.

I think you should go ahead with this Ryszard. And why wait until CC:Resistance is released? You probably have historical expertise the CC team don't share so can surely already imagine the actions which would be suitable for the CC treatment. There are 6 or 7 suitable urban maps between CC:E and BP:Stalingrad. And the playbook is available for download so you already have an idea of the system you'll be working with. That is to say: you already have everything you need to start work. I'm sure GMT would look with interest on such material for future issues of C3i. And I wouldn't worry about not being a "professional designer". I suspect that some of the people who've designed CC scenarios weren't 'professionals' before their first attempts, but that's just my guess. All the best with your efforts.
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Russ Williams
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I'm just surprised no one has yet treated the subject question as a silly riddle like "Who's buried in Grant's tomb?"...
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Art Bugorski
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JMcL63 wrote:
I'm sure GMT would look with interest on such material for future issues of C3i.


Well I think the treatment would require some new maps so I don't know if an issue of C3i would do it justice. A battlepack I think would.
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Georg von Lemberg
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HarlemMimeSchool wrote:
Mantuanwar wrote:
I am still hoping they will realise it is a mistake not to have included a Warsaw scenario in the first place...


And then do what?


Send all bgg users a complimentary copy of Combat Commander as a small token of their regretfulness?
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Art Bugorski
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gvonl wrote:
HarlemMimeSchool wrote:
Mantuanwar wrote:
I am still hoping they will realise it is a mistake not to have included a Warsaw scenario in the first place...


And then do what?


Send all bgg users a complimentary copy of Combat Commander as a small token of their regretfulness?


Realise that there is enough demand to produce a battle pack on the subject? And then commit the resources, and produce it, and sell it?

PS- I know they don't vehicle in CC, but I'd hope that they could make an exception for [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kubuś]Kubus[/url]!
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John McLintock
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AngryStarAnarchy wrote:
JMcL63 wrote:
I'm sure GMT would look with interest on such material for future issues of C3i.


Well I think the treatment would require some new maps so I don't know if an issue of C3i would do it justice. A battlepack I think would.

C3i has already given away a CC map. Admittedly that included a replacement for a CC:M map whose LOS dots got missed at the printers, but it still might not be out of the question for new scenarios. Also a couple of the CC:Normandy scenarios were released as C3i scenarios before the battlepack came out. One of them- the Pegasus Bridge scenario, used an existing map then got its own special map in the battlepack, so there is no necessary contradiction between scenarios being released in C3i and in an eventual battlepack release on the same theme.

I can speak for neither the CC development team nor GMT. My point here is to encourage Ryszard and anyone else who might want to work on Warsaw Uprising scenarios. Talk of demand for a Warsaw Uprising battlepack is a little academic I feel; by which I mean that there is surely demand for any CC product GMT will produce: that's the message the fans've consistently delivered since the original release of CC way back in 2006. The CC team might not want to design a Warsaw Uprising battlepack themselves but might be interested if someone else presented it. Ryszard might not want to jump into working on a full battlepack himself, which is why a C3i scenario or two might prove to be his best starting point. If that entails using existing maps then that's a compromise that'll have to made for the sake of delivering Warsaw Uprising material to the CC community, don't you think?

As I said in my previous post: Ryszard's best bet is surely to get to work as soon as he can and then to explore the options with GMT and the CC team. Again, I wish him every success.
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Ryszard Tokarczuk
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Thanks for cheering me up Currently, I`m looking for Polish sources about details on resistance actions - maps, events and so on. This means I`m going to make my own urban maps (based, for example, on streets of war-time Warsaw). Here my "non-pro" status will show, as I`m not a graphic designer nor twentieth century historian

So... first, I`m going to look for possible scenarios, then proper work would start (obviously, with playtesting on the way).

As this is not my only way to spend my time, please don`t expect any real news/breakthrough soon. Still, book/source reading is already underway.
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Cindy Nowak
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Owning and having played Mali Powstańcy: Warszawa 1944, I would think the Muzeum Powstania Warszawskiego would be an excellent starting place and the book The Civilian Population and the Warsaw Uprising of 1944 a good resource.

There is also a website dedicated to the uprising which I found had a great deal of information.
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Art Bugorski
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RyTo wrote:
Currently, I`m looking for Polish sources about details on resistance actions - maps, events and so on.


Wikipedia has a nice map about which sections were controlled. http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Warszawa_Powstanie_1944-08...

Also, you really ought to go to the museum if you haven't yet.
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Andrew Laws
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I don't mean to break any hearts here, but I'd posit that the chance of their ever being a 'Warsaw Uprising' battle pack being somewhere around zero.

Let's consider the battle packs that have gone before:

Normandy
Stalingrad
Papua New Guinea
Paratroopers

Normandy and Stalingrad are probably the two biggest operations of WW2 and the fighting on New Guinea lasted from 1942 to 1945.

Pretty much all the scenarios from Paratroopers take place in France or Belgium from 1944 onwards so can be lumped in with the Allied invasion of France along with Normandy.

Not to downplay the seriousness or courage of those involved in the Warsaw Uprising but it doesn't really fit the bill for a battlepack, CC: Resistance itself being an 'enhanced battlepack'.
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Art Bugorski
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@HarlemMimeSchool

Well then it could be included with others scenarios. Or it could introduces others to this compelling part of history.

I find it unfortunate that the sheer number of American wargamers causes products that pander to that demographic over and over again. How many games on Guadalcanal do we need when there isn't even a single game AFAIK on the Uprising?
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Cindy Nowak
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There is nothing stopping any CC:E fans from creating their own scenarios. In fact, Chad has encouraged folks to do so. While there might not be sufficient material for a battlepak, we've certainly seen special scenarios come out in C3i magazine.
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Art Bugorski
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I can't see it been done well without new maps and new counters. That and C3i doesn't quite have that visibility. I'd never hear about it, and a full release I think would raise the profile of those volunteer soldiers.
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Andrew Laws
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I take the point that Normandy will probably sell better than CC:Warsaw, but I don't see how CC:Stalingrad and CC:Resistance are pandering to the American market, being that they focus on the Eastern front and involve precisely no American units.

Another thing to consider is 'what does Battlepack X add to the CC system'

I don't see much that a pack about Warsaw would add that CC:Stalingrad hasn't already covered in terms of rules, maps, and gameplay elements.

If you like you could combine resistance units with Stalingrad rules and have at it.


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Andrew Laws
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AngryStarAnarchy wrote:
I can't see it been done well without new maps and new counters.


Here's what I came up with off the top of my head:

Section off a part of an urban map with rubble topped with wire. Then have partisan units try and effect a break out from behind the rubble/wire to the opposite map edge whilst a smaller, but higher quality german force tries to oppose them. Partisan exit points are doubled, no points for the germans.

Maybe force the partisans to play without their special movement rule to simulate the tight quarters.

Bish bash bosh.

Quote:
That and C3i doesn't quite have that visibility. I'd never hear about it, and a full release I think would raise the profile of those volunteer soldiers.


It seems like you're perhaps less interested in playing out the particular situation than you are in having CC recognise your personal favourite troops. I mean CC is pretty cool, but it's hardly the ultimate honour to be featured in it.
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