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Subject: POLL: Would you buy this re-design of Glory To Rome? rss

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Bruce Murphy
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That's true, which is why the original is better. Ignore everything but colours and one name, perhaps read the guide text once.

B>
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Pasta Batman
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Referring to the redesign shown in original post, I wonder if putting a thin line of color around the perimeter would address the 'pool' issue?
 
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Bruce Murphy
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pastabatman wrote:
Referring to the redesign shown in original post, I wonder if putting a thin line of color around the perimeter would address the 'pool' issue?

Not really. It isn't enough to easil stand our, or easily show up clients.

B>
 
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Jeff Finazzo
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Aurendrosl wrote:
I would buy a rerelease not only for new art but for a better box, better components, and most importantly better card quality.

No argument there. After sleeving my cards they barely fit back in the packaging.
 
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Nate Straight

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thepackrat wrote:
pastabatman wrote:
Referring to the redesign shown in original post, I wonder if putting a thin line of color around the perimeter would address the 'pool' issue?

Not really. It isn't enough to easil stand our, or easily show up clients.

B>

Doesn't seem like a fix is really all that difficult to come by.

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chearns
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Nate,

maybe my vision is just better than most peoples, but I don't have trouble distinguishing the colours of the text, the symbol, and the clip-art (kind of funny how I'm being accused of being against clip art while I'm talking about how much I love a redesign who's art looks suspiciously like clipart).
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Nate Straight

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I don't suspect I would either, and I think the issue is massively over-blown.

I'm just pointing out that, if it is a problem, the solution seems... easy peasy?
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Brian McCormick
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thepackrat wrote:
ttr has nothing to do with trains
Huh?



You're not about to give me the crap about how TtR is "about matching cards and it's not a true train game like 18xx" are ya?

Ticket to Ride (or Les Adventures du Rail in French) is very much about trains.

thepackrat wrote:

You misrepresent my argument. Not all types of games, all interesting games. Define interesting how you like, but don't confuse the game with its wrapper. interesting games are hard to find, you can't afford to ignore them over trivialities.
B>
So since we're allowed to define "interesting", if I'm disinterested in a game due to muddy, non-functional visual design then I'm not allowed to be disinterested in it? PARADOX!
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Randall Bart
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There was a yellow sports car, but some people wanted a red sports car. So they painted the yellow car red, including painting over the windshield. I prefer the high visibility version.
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Pasta Batman
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thepackrat wrote:
pastabatman wrote:
Referring to the redesign shown in original post, I wonder if putting a thin line of color around the perimeter would address the 'pool' issue?

Not really. It isn't enough to easil stand our, or easily show up clients.

B>
Not sure I agree. Another possible solution would be to reverse the background and foreground colors.
 
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Bruce Murphy
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NateStraight wrote:


Doesn't seem like a fix is really all that difficult to come by.


Nicely optimised for a single purpose, next to useless in the pool. Maybe more difficult to combine visibility of original version with the delightfully aethetic, yet less useable, redraws people seem to keep coming up with.

B>
 
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Bruce Murphy
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Aurendrosl wrote:
thepackrat wrote:
ttr has nothing to do with trains
Huh?



You're not about to give me the crap about how TtR is "about matching cards and it's not a true train game like 18xx" are ya?

Ticket to Ride (or Les Adventures du Rail in French) is very much about trains.

"Uses train in title" means "about trains". Fascinating. So if someone made exactly the same game with camels and a different title you'd happily play it?

Quote:

thepackrat wrote:

You misrepresent my argument. Not all types of games, all interesting games. Define interesting how you like, but don't confuse the game with its wrapper. interesting games are hard to find, you can't afford to ignore them over trivialities.
B>
So since we're allowed to define "interesting", if I'm disinterested in a game due to muddy, non-functional visual design then I'm not allowed to be disinterested in it? PARADOX!

Not at all. Merely you conflating design with game again. Your artistic tastes are entirely up to you, but let's not claim that they're about the game.

B>
 
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I have been thinking about buying Glory to Rome for a while, but the artwork always puts me off. I could live with or without the artwork pictured--it really doesn't do much for me. Adding Asterix artwork to Glory to Rome would make it both an instant buy and a family game -- my kids LOVE Asterix!
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Randall Bart
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thepackrat wrote:
"Uses train in title" means "about trains". Fascinating.
No. Uses trains in theme means about trains. Whether you like the game has nothing to do with the subject.
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Filipe Cunha
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Barticus88 wrote:
thepackrat wrote:
"Uses train in title" means "about trains". Fascinating.
No. Uses trains in theme means about trains. Whether you like the game has nothing to do with the subject.
I totally agree... afterall, ALL games can have it's theme changed to something else.
 
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Jeff Finazzo
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philreh wrote:
Adding Asterix artwork to Glory to Rome would make it both an instant buy and a family game -- my kids LOVE Asterix!

Wouldn't the game then have to be about the sacking of Rome?
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Mike G
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philreh wrote:
I have been thinking about buying Glory to Rome for a while, but the artwork always puts me off. I could live with or without the artwork pictured--it really doesn't do much for me. Adding Asterix artwork to Glory to Rome would make it both an instant buy and a family game -- my kids LOVE Asterix!
I've happily been playing Glory to Rome and never minded the art at all. Having said that, I'd jump at the chance for an Asterix version!
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Bruce Murphy
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endou_kenji wrote:
Barticus88 wrote:
thepackrat wrote:
"Uses train in title" means "about trains". Fascinating.
No. Uses trains in theme means about trains. Whether you like the game has nothing to do with the subject.
I totally agree... afterall, ALL games can have it's theme changed to something else.

And for some games you wouldn't notice the difference, but for others, many of the mechanics simply wouldn't make any sense with a different theme. Only in the second group is the game about the theme.

Disliking TtR or not because you find the gameplay stultifying is one thing, insisting that you won't play it because of some about-train-ness is pretty much the same as insisting you won't play TtR because the irrelevant pictures aren't quite drawn nicely enough. A rather good example for the current conversation.

B>
 
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Randall Bart
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I admit the theme in Ticket to Ride is somewhat misapplied. TtR at it's heart is a basic train game. You start out by taking on contracts. Over the course of the game you gather resources (cards), build tracks, and take on more contracts. In the end the value of your company is the amount of infrastructure you have built, plus additional payment for completing contracts, minus penalties for failing to satisfy contracts.

But the theme has been perverted. The picture on the box shows passengers, and the game is called Ticket to Ride. Do not be fooled. This is not a passenger train game. Ticket to Ride is a freight train game in disguise.
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Thomas Cowart
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Barticus88 wrote:
I admit the theme in Ticket to Ride is somewhat misapplied. TtR at it's heart is a basic train game. You start out by taking on contracts. Over the course of the game you gather resources (cards), build tracks, and take on more contracts. In the end the value of your company is the amount of infrastructure you have built, plus additional payment for completing contracts, minus penalties for failing to satisfy contracts.

But the theme has been perverted. The picture on the box shows passengers, and the game is called Ticket to Ride. Do not be fooled. This is not a passenger train game. Ticket to Ride is a freight train game in disguise.

We are getting way off topic, but ticket to ride is gussied up rummy. The gussied up part could be about anything where you're making connections between points. Trains really have nothing to do with the gameplay, which is very abstract. Trains just happen to be the theme Alan picked, probably because Alan likes trains as a theme (see Union Pacific and Santa Fe Rails which were both redeveloped into games with other themes). Other possible themes: building highways, the roads in Elfenland, canals, buying airline routes, or scouting routes for space freighters. So to say that Ticket to Ride is a _train_ _game_ is pretty shallow because the train part just isn't integral to the game. Saying it is can be a useful shorthand in some situations but it's not accurate.
 
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Heiko Günther
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Few notes from the (graphic) (re)designer: When starting this redesign, allthough one concern was the original art, whatever you may think of that (the original graphic design is far worse and annoying than the clipart used), my main goal was improved playability and visual decluttering, which led to three main graphic design choices:

1 - Remove the full bleed and go for bold and distinct (per color) shapes for the illustrations. Thus, every type of building is recognizable easily even at the other end of the table. You can see what the other players are building at the moment.

2 - Keep the clutter low. Allthough the cards have now less of their respective colors on them, they stay recognizable in the pool, if only because there is now less color disturbance overall.

3 - Reduce the different functions of the cards to their maximal usability while keeping a minimal impact on the overall visual data overflow. The neuralgic areas on the cards (left border for clients, lower border for stockpile...) need to serve their purpose well while not overloading the card as an entity.

(postscript concerning #2: I am aware that full bleed color is unbeatable for fast and easy parsing of the contents of the pool; however, it makes other, important features of the cards less easily readable. In all our test games with this redesign, there never arose any problem with recognizing the cards in the pool.)

(another postscript: No clipart was used in the making of this redesign. Instead, every motif is hand-drawn, meticiously digitalized and streamlined. Which is probably a lot more care than your average clipart receives in the proccess of its making. Allthough clip-art in itself doesn't mean bad art, the largest part of it is.)

(another postscript: Any graphic design can be subject to personal tastes, so are the original one and my redesign. I was aiming for better usability, a goal which, at least to the test plays I had with it, was achieved.)
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Mike Taylor
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joedogboy wrote:
Why can't they put it in a box like the Spanish & Polish editions, with cards like the Polish cards?

As many good things as I've heard about this game, I just can't bring myself to hand over money for the ugliest game in the ugliest packaging I've seen.

Agreed. It's not just the appearance (which I'm not fond of, but can live with). It's the time and effort it take to pack and unpack it each time. I'd love to see the game packaged in a format that retains the small footprint of the current model, but that stores the components well and is quick to pack/unpack.
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Randall Bart
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lee elektrik wrote:
my main goal was improved playability
I have the distinct impression that Europeans keep the pool neatly sorted. The pool is depicted in the rules as messy, and we tend to keep it that way.

The beauty of Ed Carter's original design is that the color bleeds off every edge. There is no doubt what color any card is, and that is the primary thing I want to know. I want to know the color of the cards in the pool. I want to know the color of the cards in other player's stockpiles and clienteles. I want to know the colors that people are building (to know the colors they want). You've addressed the stockpile and clientele properly, but not the pool and buildings.

I would keep the outer 5mm of Ed's design as a frame, with new art in the middle. By surrendering the majority of the card edge you have lost too much of what Ed did right, and no amount of pretty pictures in the middle will make up for that.

mat9h wrote:
It's the time and effort it take to pack and unpack it each time.
In the latest printing there are four tuckboxes, and it all fit nicely in the silly clamshell.
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Bruce Murphy
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I've seen a fairly wide sampling of Europeans playing it, and no neat-pool-sorting was observed.

B>
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Frantic Ferret wrote:
philreh wrote:
Adding Asterix artwork to Glory to Rome would make it both an instant buy and a family game -- my kids LOVE Asterix!

Wouldn't the game then have to be about the sacking of Rome?

Nah, Asterix and Obelix have sort of a "peaceful co-existence" with the Romans in the later books that is punctuated by frenzied fights. One of the running gags is the number of times Asterix talks to Caesar in an almost "sibling rivalry" tone. Wouldn't be hard to integrate into a game about Roman building, thematically.
 
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