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Subject: Should George Zimmerman be arrested [Poll] rss

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jmilum wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:

Except, of course, that's not what your link says. Why do you continue to do stuff like that? No where in there does it say "dead or alive". The vigilante style bounty is wrong in and of itself, there's no need for you to spruce it up.


From the article Drew linked:

Quote:
And when asked whether he was inciting violence, Muhammad replied defiantly: "An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth."


Drew didn't put words in anyone's mouth, he interpreted (correctly) this phrase from the bible.
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DWTripp wrote:
it seems that couple of you are annoyed that Zimmerman appears (appears!) to have been victimized before shooting this other person.

All we know for sure is that had the man followed the instructions of the 911 dispatcher and not pursued the teen, he would not have put himself in a situation where he had to kill anyone, justified or not.
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DWTripp wrote:
Drew didn't put words in anyone's mouth, he interpreted (correctly) this phrase from the bible.

The reward was for the capture, then asked if it could incite violence he responded that way. But it was not a reward put out for "dead or alive", which is what drew implied. There is a difference. And as I said, vigilante style justice is bad enough, there is no need to try and spin it more.
 
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Dan Schaeffer
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bjlillo wrote:
That's certainly true, but considering where Zimmerman and witness reported Trayvon being during the altercation (on top of Zimmerman beating the crap out of him) it seems to follow fairly logically. If this were some crazed racist looking to gun down a black kid, I don't think he lets him get on top and bloody him up before firing the shot.


Maybe one witness said he saw Trayvon being on top of Martin. The "beating the crap out of him" is your interpretation. The police report said that Zimmerman was treated at the scene, not hospitalized. Also, the report doesn't say Zimmerman was covered with blood - his or Trayvon's. It doesn't say if there was any evidence of how close the two men were when the gun was fired. (Maybe we would expect that in a later forensics report - is there one?)

Also, I don't know why you have this "crazed racist" thing going. Has anybody really called Zimmerman a "crazed racist"? Yes, it sounds like he may have said "fucking coons" in his 911 call, so it's possible he was a racist, or at least prone to using racist epithets, but that really isn't the issue.

The racial issue, to the extent there is one, is the police response that let Zimmerman walk while an unarmed black kid was dead in the morgue. The police were very willing to accept Zimmerman's story before completing a full investigation. (E.g., how long did it take for the cell phone call between Trayvon and his girl friend to come to light?) There is no way of knowing for sure, but it seems likely that if the races of the two parties had been reversed - if Zimmerman had been black and Trayvon white - Zimmerman would have been in a cell from day one.
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jmilum wrote:
DWTripp wrote:
Drew didn't put words in anyone's mouth, he interpreted (correctly) this phrase from the bible.

The reward was for the capture, then asked if it could incite violence he responded that way. But it was not a reward put out for "dead or alive", which is what drew implied. There is a difference. And as I said, vigilante style justice is bad enough, there is no need to try and spin it more.


While I agree that (from what little I have read) that it was a serious lapse in judgment to "follow" the guy - and we still don't know how long, far or aggressively he followed - I think it's clear that the reward implies killing Zimmerman. I know a lot more about the New Black Panthers and have heard their leader Shazham or Shabazz or whatever his name is speak on half dozen occasions. They are advocates for violence. Period.

Something similar happened to a Jewish teen from Florida last year... not a killing, but guilt before proof and he paid the price for media sensationalism by not being drafted into pro baseball despite his stellar stats. I'll go look it up because it is very similar in that the kid had a judgment lapse and paid a price for not committing a crime.
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Golux13 wrote:
The racial issue, to the extent there is one, is the police response that let Zimmerman walk while an unarmed black kid was dead in the morgue. The police were very willing to accept Zimmerman's story before completing a full investigation.

They hauled him to the police station in cuffs and interrogated him. What more do you want? There was no reason at that point to arrest him, and it's completely routine for people to be released after questioning and actually arrested once the investigations are complete.
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Dan Schaeffer
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Drew1365 wrote:
So the New Black Panther Party is offering a $10,000 bounty on Zimmerman, "Dead or Alive". Professional race-baiters like Sharpton and Jackson are organizing rallies, Spike Lee gives everyone Zimmerman's home address, quite obviously in an attempt to intimidate or call for violence, Leftists in the media are blaming Republicans, idiots on Facebook and celebrity news-whores are posting pictures of themselves in hoodies in a show of some kind of support . . .

So what happens if Zimmerman is found not guilty? What happens to all the emotion that these race-baiters have whipped up. Does it sag like a heavy load?

Or does it explode?



OK, the NBP "bounty" thing is asinine.

But what if things do explode? Why would that possibly happen? What does it say about race relations in the U.S. that it's still a possibility? The NBP isn't creating emotions out of nothing - there is anger and fear out there in the black community, and events like the Trayvon Martin killing don't do anything to assuage it.

A friend of mine on Facebook posted something from another friend of his that included a list of things he is constantly afraid of just because he's a black man in America. Excerpts:

Quote:
I'm afraid of walking down the street and being stopped by a cop for "looking suspicious" or "fitting the description."
...
I'm afraid of going out to bars on holidays because drunken White people are far quicker to offend and attack and I know how quickly I can be framed as the aggressor.
...
I'm afraid of eating watermelon, fried chicken, etc. in the presence of white people because the joke is coming and I'm not sure how I will respond.

I'm afraid of not making the jokes first so that at least I feel like I'm controlling the situation and not having stereotyped and racist imagery thrown at me from my peers.

I'm afraid of not laughing at every inappropriately racist joke, comment, or aside made by people in positions above me for fear of losing my job for being "too sensitive" or "too militant."
...
I'm afraid of being shot down for reaching in my pocket for my identification.

I'm afraid that the stereotyped imagery fed to me on a daily basis of my own people has worked its way into my own subconscious.


You and I can't possibly feel the way he does. At best, we can sympathize, but I will bet you these kinds of things don't happen to you. They sure don't happen to me.

So yes the NBP is despicable for playing up those fears and angry emotions, but they didn't cause them.

And what have you done to defuse and eliminate them?
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damiangerous wrote:
Golux13 wrote:
The racial issue, to the extent there is one, is the police response that let Zimmerman walk while an unarmed black kid was dead in the morgue. The police were very willing to accept Zimmerman's story before completing a full investigation.

They hauled him to the police station in cuffs and interrogated him. What more do you want? There was no reason at that point to arrest him, and it's completely routine for people to be released after questioning and actually arrested once the investigations are complete.


There probably is a racial component wedged in here somewhere. But I agree, what exactly is expected here? The shooter is a known resident of the area right? Is he treated differently because he isn't black? Maybe, maybe not. What are the stats for black-on-white crime there? Or white-on-black crime? Should that even be a part of enforcement? Did the police not detain this guy because he is white? Nobody can prove that. Should they have? And if so, why?

Only the most hypocritical and biased RSP'ers would deny that the media and special interest groups have already tried this guy in the court of opinion. I actually looked at half a dozen articles today and not one of them featured a photo of the dead kid after the age of 12 and all of them featured only one photo of Zimmerman that appeared to have been taken by the police in which he looked tired and a bit unshaven.

None of this is about sympathy for a dead kid. It's about creating a modern day race riot in America for political and financial ends and to keep the average hard working black person corralled in a voting feed-lot while simultaneously keeping average hard-working white people feeling like they are being blamed for shit they didn't do.

I mean really people, what did you learn in school anyway?
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Drew1365 wrote:
WHAT DOES IT SAY?!

That was not in the article you linked, now was it?
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jmilum wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
WHAT DOES IT SAY?!

That was not in the article you linked, now was it?


Unreal. You are, of course, always right. Even when you're wrong.
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DWTripp wrote:
You are, of course, always right.

It's a terrible burden to bare.
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Damian
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jmilum wrote:
It's a terrible burden to bare.

Please don't.
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DWTripp wrote:
Only the most hypocritical and biased RSP'ers would deny that the media and special interest groups have already tried this guy in the court of opinion.


Similarly, the media and other special interest groups spent most of today convicting Trayvon Martin of being a drug-dealing gangsta thug.

So it goes.
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Rich S
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And in other news Trayvon's mother seeks to trademark two phrases.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/trayvon-martin-tradem...

It's all about the money now. shake
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Damian
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phosrik wrote:
And in other news Trayvon's mother seeks to trademark two phrases.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/trayvon-martin-tradem...

It's all about the money now. shake

Yeah, Drew mentioned that on page 3.
 
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Dan Schaeffer
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phosrik wrote:
And in other news Trayvon's mother seeks to trademark two phrases.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/trayvon-martin-tradem...

It's all about the money now. shake


To be fair, it may not be all about money for her, but about preventing someone else from swooping in and making money off the tragedy. Because you know it would happen.
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Tobias Strobe
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phosrik wrote:
And in other news Trayvon's mother seeks to trademark two phrases.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/trayvon-martin-tradem...

It's all about the money now. shake


Her son was recently shot and killed. Maybe you should extend her a little goddamn compassion and not assume that she's a soulless bitch just trying to make a quick buck.

But whatever dude. You're the one with the cross microbadge. If you're throwing stones, you must have all your shit pretty well figured out.
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Christopher Seguin
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jmilum wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
WHAT DOES IT SAY?!

That was not in the article you linked, now was it?


At first I was going to keep my mouth shut, because although I had HEARD the "dead or alive" thing, I didn't want to post anything about it becuase I only linked to the NPR article, and that particular article didn't mention "dead or alive".

Then, Drew brought up the "dead or alive" thing, and you said "there is no such thing".

When Drew provided evidence of the "dead or alive" thing, with A PICTURE TO PROVE IT, your best response is "that was not in the article you linked, now was it."

Although I am not a big fan of Tim Robbins, I think he said it perfectly in "The Shawshank Redemption":

"Why are you being so obtuse?"

Seriously - at this point, having a conversation with you and people like you is an exercise that takes too much effort. Enjoy your episode of righteous indignation at Mr. Zimmerman while it lasts.
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Christopher Seguin
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Drew1365 wrote:
jmilum wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:

Except, of course, that's not what your link says. Why do you continue to do stuff like that? No where in there does it say "dead or alive". The vigilante style bounty is wrong in and of itself, there's no need for you to spruce it up.


Here's what the Black Panthers are circulating.



WHAT DOES IT SAY?!



It says "MURDERED IN COLD BLOOD", that's what it says.

Oh, snap.


Does this need to be printed and mail via certified mail to Eric Holder's office? Or can we just assume that Holder and everyone else in the Obama administration are going to ignore it, since it was written and authorized by a violent black group, and not some white supremecist group in Montana?
 
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chrisnd wrote:
Then, Drew brought up the "dead or alive" thing, and you said "there is no such thing".

And, of course, that's not what I said:

jmilum wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:

Except, of course, that's not what your link says. Why do you continue to do stuff like that? No where in there does it say "dead or alive". The vigilante style bounty is wrong in and of itself, there's no need for you to spruce it up.

The link text was written as if the linked article contained that phrase. It did not. I never said there was "no such thing".
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Charlie Chuckle
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Why are racist black people angry(Black Panthers)? This wasn't a racist killing, it was accidental self defense towards a teenager who attacked the wrong person. Race is not part of the equation.


Also, why would a teenager be considered harmless if he's been suspended from school for 10 days. I think the media is twisting the facts.. Who's stupid enough to murder someone in cold blood after calling the police? If he's lying than he's pretty good at planting evidence in such a short period of time. I believe Zimmerman's story, he has no motive to lie. All you racists want to think it was a racist killing just like you throw the racist card at all the other things that have almost nothing to do with race.
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Charlie Chuckle
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tscook wrote:
How the fuck does accidental self defense work? That isn't an option when you're stalking someone with a gun and chasing them while on the phone with 911 as a fucking civilian.

Calm down kid!

He accidentally got trapped and used too much force. He was being attacked and sometimes you fear for your life when having your brains mashed in. The choice was to A) Die from this thug, or B) Shoot him. (The accident was he actually had a 3rd choice he didn't have time to figure out)

It was an accident because most people are not as stupid as Zimmerman and wouldn't get ambushed like that. I'm pretty sure this teenager was a punk, by the evidence given. Most people who resort to physical violence for no reason at all actually have a reason. They were guilty of something... If he was "inside" a gated community, then he shouldn't be beating up adults in the community... They just need to build bigger walls to keep the thieves and thugs out. That'll solve the problem.
 
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Charliechuckleberry wrote:
Also, why would a teenager be considered harmless if he's been suspended from school for 10 days.

What does his school suspension for an empty marijuana bag have to do with him getting shot? Probably as much as Zimmerman's previous charges of resisting arrest and domestic violence?
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Charlie Chuckle
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jmilum wrote:
Charliechuckleberry wrote:
Also, why would a teenager be considered harmless if he's been suspended from school for 10 days.

What does his school suspension for an empty marijuana bag have to do with him getting shot? Probably as much as Zimmerman's previous charges of resisting arrest and domestic violence?


Ah, I didn't know the kid was into drugs. That does make a difference. Drugs usually involve violence. At least I don't know any non-violent drug using people. We rarely see hippies around.
 
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Charliechuckleberry wrote:
tscook wrote:
How the fuck does accidental self defense work? That isn't an option when you're stalking someone with a gun and chasing them while on the phone with 911 as a fucking civilian.

Calm down kid!

He accidentally got trapped and used too much force. He was being attacked and sometimes you fear for your life when having your brains mashed in. The choice was to A) Die from this thug, or B) Shoot him. (The accident was he actually had a 3rd choice he didn't have time to figure out)

It was an accident because most people are not as stupid as Zimmerman and wouldn't get ambushed like that. I'm pretty sure this teenager was a punk, by the evidence given. Most people who resort to physical violence for no reason at all actually have a reason. They were guilty of something... If he was "inside" a gated community, then he shouldn't be beating up adults in the community... They just need to build bigger walls to keep the thieves and thugs out. That'll solve the problem.


I'll wait patiently here for Sauberer to show up and tell you you're "forming half-assed opinions on the internet without enough facts." I've been surprised he hasn't jumped on BJ, Drew, or the others yet. He was so upset earlier about people forming opinions based on the facts as reported in the news, I'm sure he's just livid now.

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