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Subject: An idea for reinforcements with more personality rss

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The Real Stabliser
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I messed about with a program called MSE (magic set editor) a while back and came up with this:


(click to see bigger)

I thought it might be a way to use more of the story behind ogre in the game. This could be the reinforcements that arrive for a given scenario. Someone with more grognard experience will no doubt tell me that's not what you call a squad.

Maybe Captain Hudson has family in the area the battle is being fought in and turns up as reinforcements, possibly because hes thinking "Not in my town you don't!"
Or maybe hes been sent there by a superior, who says "HUDSON! get off your ass, take these men and keep the bridge open at all costs!"
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Herodian Smith
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Cool idea.
 
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CJ Agro
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Could be an interesting way to get a starting group. Have a few different cards like this all well balanced and then draw them from a deck to kind of get a random but balanced battalion. Based on what Ogre you're up against you draw a different amount of cards.

Or something like that, i have no idea how this game is played so i don't know if that would even work.
 
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The Real Stabliser
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Wootai wrote:
Could be an interesting way to get a starting group. Have a few different cards like this all well balanced and then draw them from a deck to kind of get a random but balanced battalion. Based on what Ogre you're up against you draw a different amount of cards...


That was pretty much how the idea came about, but so far its just reinforcements
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Tim Gordon
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I really like that card, and the idea behind it. Perfect for random encounters too for solo play perhaps?
 
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Aaron Morgan
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stabliser123 wrote:
Wootai wrote:
Could be an interesting way to get a starting group. Have a few different cards like this all well balanced and then draw them from a deck to kind of get a random but balanced battalion. Based on what Ogre you're up against you draw a different amount of cards...


That was pretty much how the idea came about, but so far its just reinforcements


It reminds me a lot of BattleLore: Call to Arms. Very cool!
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Ron A
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stabliser123 wrote:
Wootai wrote:
Could be an interesting way to get a starting group. Have a few different cards like this all well balanced and then draw them from a deck to kind of get a random but balanced battalion. Based on what Ogre you're up against you draw a different amount of cards...


That was pretty much how the idea came about, but so far its just reinforcements


Killer idea, wonder what Steve J would think of it? That would make a cool stretch goal.
 
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Kelly Overholser
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It would also be a good way to introduce a few other twists. Perhaps one commander has a smaller, "elite" force that's worth less points normally, but can use some special ability to make up for it. And on the flip side, someone could have a larger than usual force, but with some kind of disadvantage. (Admittedly, I don't know the Ogre rules yet, so I won't try and speculate on what those abilities might be.)
 
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Talorien
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Hmm. Love this idea.

Having unique unit ID#s on the counters might be important?

(For scenarios, etc where tracking which heavy tank belongs to which reinforcement card is important)
 
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Desi Mims
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TAG-UK wrote:
Perfect for random encounters too for solo play perhaps?


The only usage I'd be particularly interested in. Other than solo, I don't need more random.
 
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The Real Stabliser
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I added a command structure to the card, I don't know if I did it right. Tell me I've done it all wrong if you like, I'm having fun. - I've got to do something in the Ogreverse between now and November.


(click to see bigger)
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Tim Gordon
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Seriously Stabs, I'd be keen to mention this to SJG - with their existing set-up for Munchkin cards, I see this as a 'feasible' addition. However, I respect it's entirely your call - what do you think?
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Aaron Bohm
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stabliser123 wrote:
I added a command structure to the card, I don't know if I did it right. Tell me I've done it all wrong if you like, I'm having fun. - I've got to do something in the Ogreverse between now and November.


Depending on the time period, for the US it usually goes

Army
Corps
Division
Regiment/Brigade
Battalion
Company
Platoon
Squad

As far as how many of each goes into each and what the make up is, that also differs but its about 2-4 squads to a platoon, 3-5 platoons to a company comany, 3-4 companies to a battallion, 3 battalions to a Regiment, 3 regiments to a division, 2-5 divisions to a Corps and any number of corps in an Army.

Based on the units you have represented, I would say it looks a little big to be a squad. Possibly a Company detachment from a Mobile Infantry Battlion, something like Bravo Company, 221st Mobile Infantry Battalion, 22nd Tank Division.
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Josh Megerman
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stabliser123 wrote:
I added a command structure to the card, I don't know if I did it right. Tell me I've done it all wrong if you like, I'm having fun. - I've got to do something in the Ogreverse between now and November.


Not sure the command structure does anything for me (especially since you're not likely to have cards that are higher up since those should encompass everything below it unless it's a CP and its defenders), but the card concept is great. I'd go so far as to suggest a few different kinds of card which would work well for both solo play and reinforcements:

1) Force cards like you're doing, perhaps in 3-4 different strengths (6, 12, 24, 36?). They could either have different backs or the same, depending on the idea, but should be easily distinguishable on the front so they can be removed from the deck or otherwise sorted based on the scenario.

2) Placement cards - for solo play setup, you'd draw 1 force card and 1 placement card, with something like "anywhere within 2 hexes of 0818", "anywhere in city hexes on the lake shore around 2114", or "along the road between 0104 and 0806". They could also be used for victory condition placement.

3) Entry Hex Cards - rather than rolling for entry hex from a short list, have 1 set of cards for each map (colored similar to the force cards for easy sorting) and draw to see where the reinforcements arrive.

4) Objective Cards - better for solo play, but also doable for random group scenarios (each person gets their forces and their objective, but keeps the latter hidden until the game is over or they achieve it decisively). Can be tied to placement cards or not, depending on the scenario.

Heck, done right, this could generate an entire deck worth of cards that would enable infinite scenarios for both solo play and conventions!
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The Real Stabliser
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offsides wrote:
stabliser123 wrote:
I added a command structure to the card, I don't know if I did it right. Tell me I've done it all wrong if you like, I'm having fun. - I've got to do something in the Ogreverse between now and November.


Not sure the command structure does anything for me (especially since you're not likely to have cards that are higher up since those should encompass everything below it unless it's a CP and its defenders), but the card concept is great. I'd go so far as to suggest a few different kinds of card which would work well for both solo play and reinforcements:


I'm going to have to agree with you, the number of units on a reinforcement card would likely lead to every command diagram looking the same, so either remove it altogether or just incorporate a squad/platoon/company icon somewhere [remove for now]

Quote:
1) Force cards like you're doing, perhaps in 3-4 different strengths (6, 12, 24, 36?). They could either have different backs or the same, depending on the idea, but should be easily distinguishable on the front so they can be removed from the deck or otherwise sorted based on the scenario.


I was planning to print these onto sticker paper and stick them to spare ccg cards, so the backs would likely be the same. however a variety of card sleeves would allow for identification from the back as well as reducing the chance of the stickers coming off whilst shuffling. The '10' in the top right corner can be changed to basically any number, so a points value could go there - I should read the new draft rules to see how points are allocated now.

Quote:
2) Placement cards - for solo play setup, you'd draw 1 force card and 1 placement card, with something like "anywhere within 2 hexes of 0818", "anywhere in city hexes on the lake shore around 2114", or "along the road between 0104 and 0806". They could also be used for victory condition placement.


I made a card for 'GEVs defend the city' which allowed the defender to place 5 GEVs in a specific city if the enemy gets within 3 hexes - seriously unbalanced I'm sure, but yeah, I've had some thoughts in this direction.

Quote:
3) Entry Hex Cards - rather than rolling for entry hex from a short list, have 1 set of cards for each map (colored similar to the force cards for easy sorting) and draw to see where the reinforcements arrive.


I think I need a new graphic to add to the map so those don't look like boring empty maps, maybe a flag or an offense arrow like in the Dad's army credits, but with combine and/or paneuro icon.

Quote:
4) Objective Cards - better for solo play, but also doable for random group scenarios (each person gets their forces and their objective, but keeps the latter hidden until the game is over or they achieve it decisively). Can be tied to placement cards or not, depending on the scenario.[q/]

I made one that changed the main objective, whereby a player could play it in order to get a marginal victory if the gamble for full victory was slipping away.

[q]Heck, done right, this could generate an entire deck worth of cards that would enable infinite scenarios for both solo play and conventions!


An entire deck! - steady on
Good solo play would a great bonus for many of us I suspect, if the cards only controlled an ogre it could be kept simple (relatively) or were you just talking about objectives for solo play? What about using cards would help conventions? I mean specifically help conventions? variety of scenarios presumably?
My brain is leaping about in all directions with this, as often happens, but I know if I try to do to much I finish nothing, and I'm still working on my maps at http://ogre.webnode.com/ and I want to get them finished.
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The Real Stabliser
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TAG-UK wrote:
Seriously Stabs, I'd be keen to mention this to SJG - with their existing set-up for Munchkin cards, I see this as a 'feasible' addition. However, I respect it's entirely your call - what do you think?


Feel free to mention it to them if you like. I'm sure SJG could probably do something with this, although I like this sort of un-official adding of frills.
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Michael Taylor
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stabliser123 wrote:
Feel free to mention it to them if you like. I'm sure SJG could probably do something with this, although I like this sort of un-official adding of frills.


There's always ArtsCow (http://www.artscow.com/).
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Talorien
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Stuff like this really shows that OGRE could have a ton of mini-expansions.

Map packs, unit packs, scenario packs (get a scenario and the special buildings/units you need for it), reinforcement card packs (Stab's idea here)...
 
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The Real Stabliser
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Well you guys could give me some (10+) names for commanders, and some unit variations and I'll put some more together, I'll put them on my web page, you can pick holes in them and then maybe they'll get improved.

Based on advice earlier in the thread, some attempt to call the group of units a squad, a platoon or a company would also be good. Correct ranking officer (Corporal/Sergeant/Lieutenant/Captain/Major) would be a bonus
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The Real Stabliser
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stabliser123 wrote:
... I'll put them on my web page, you can pick holes in them ...

1 new one:
http://ogre.webnode.com/reinforcement-cards/
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Josh Megerman
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stabliser123 wrote:
Quote:
2) Placement cards - for solo play setup, you'd draw 1 force card and 1 placement card, with something like "anywhere within 2 hexes of 0818", "anywhere in city hexes on the lake shore around 2114", or "along the road between 0104 and 0806". They could also be used for victory condition placement.


I made a card for 'GEVs defend the city' which allowed the defender to place 5 GEVs in a specific city if the enemy gets within 3 hexes - seriously unbalanced I'm sure, but yeah, I've had some thoughts in this direction.


I was thinking more along the lines of using these at the beginning of the game to indicate where the forces were to be put, or where a particular objective was.

stabliser123 wrote:
An entire deck! - steady on
Good solo play would a great bonus for many of us I suspect, if the cards only controlled an ogre it could be kept simple (relatively) or were you just talking about objectives for solo play? What about using cards would help conventions? I mean specifically help conventions? variety of scenarios presumably?
My brain is leaping about in all directions with this, as often happens, but I know if I try to do to much I finish nothing, and I'm still working on my maps at http://ogre.webnode.com/ and I want to get them finished.


While i was thinking about solo play as well, they could definitely be used for conventions where you have a lot of people all trying to do something different at the same time. Perhaps have 2 teams vying for victory over each other cooperatively (within each team, of course), but then each player would get an individual goal as well that they'd keep secret, and get bonus points for achieving it while still helping their side. Or just make it a free-for all

I'll check out your site and see what's there, but I really need to stop spending time on Ogre and get some real work done (fat chance, I had ANOTHER scenario pop into my head today, and I'll probably end up writing it up this afternoon, at least the basics of it)...
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The Real Stabliser
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OK I posted some new cards to depict where reinforcements arrive - (on my own maps, not the official maps) and then I printed them all out. So now I realise that white text in italics on a map don't show up well. More experimentation required, but things are still moving along.
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Tim Gordon
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Hi Stabs, just coming back to this, as its a great idea.

I thought the same about the white italic text. I like italic, as you can almost imagine that can reflect a quote from command, or from the official war historian. As for colour, how about just using red and blue, for Combine and PanE, to begin with?

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The Real Stabliser
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Some of the later cards I did were simply black text on white or light backgrounds - seemed to work the best. The white italics are readable on screen, but in print they were lost against the map background.

I don't seem to have options to change to red or blue text on that card template - and I have not yet learned how to create templates, so for now its white italics or a different card template.

I encourage others to try magic set editor (http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/)
There's no way I'm going to come up with all the best ideas.

So far I have 13 card ideas on my website, some were related to where to place reinforcements, others were inspired by Josh's random reinforcement tables on the SJG forum. (see the Gettysburg scenario thread http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=91882)

Progress will resume shortly...
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steve mizuno
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If you've played a lot of OGRE, there are certain force pools which work against the OGRE, and IMHO, everything else, which doesn't. There's a little wiggle room here, but not much. I fear that your idea of changing up the reinforcements will heavily unbalance the game in the favor of the cybernetic tank.
 
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