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Subject: An idea for reinforcements with more personality rss

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Tim Gordon
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Hi Steve,

That's understandable, certain force-mixes work better than others, depending on the enemy mix.

What I had in mind was using the cards to add random dimensions to the game.

For example: Solo Play, and the player has decided to be PanEuropean (Blue). Card Deck has Enemy Forces (Red) and Friendly Reinforcements (Blue). The scenario has a basic starting force for both sides, along with a necessary objective to achieve for victory.

The cards add a random element that the player draws to bring an air of the unknown to his/her solo game. If they draw red, it's more opposition to contend with, if they draw blue, it's handy reinforcements arriving. And they can select and stack the deck themselves before they start the game, or just randomly include some different challenges (e.g., Deck is made up of 8 Enemy Red cards and only 3 Friendly blue cards).

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Tim Gordon
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Hi Stabs,

Many thanks for the PM, I've run the four ideas listed below by the Ogre Maestros, including Talorien, so thought I'd post it here for everyone else too.

Taking onboard some of the suggestions made so far, the Card Deck is made up of three types of Card:
* Enemy Forces Card
* Friendly Forces Card
* Games Objective Card (this last one could be terrain to secure, VPs to earn, allsorts of stuff)

The actual use of the Cards I've then set out below:

1. Solo-play. A Combination Deck of mainly Enemy Forces with some Friendly Forces as Reinforcements for the Solo player, and some additional cards setting out Victory Objectives, whether that is amount of enemy to destroy, or terrain location to take, etc.,

2. Straight Game. A Units-only Deck (no objectives) that provides all players additional random units to encounter or reinforce. So Red player has to draw a card - if it's Red forces, he gets a new unit on table, if it's Blue card, he has to hand it over, and has handed the Blue player more reinforcements.

3. Co-Operative/Convention Deck. Another Combination Deck, run by an umpire or umpires, that provides enemy and objectives for co-operating players to battle against.

4. Long Game. A larger Combination Deck, with Units (friendly and enemy) and Objectives, where a player or players are involved in a Blitzkrieg-style campaign, to be fought for several hours over a long 'scrolling' map (i.e., place one board adjacent as and when you need it). The deck provides objective after objective, and wave after wave of enemy forces, and some reinforcements, and the Blitzer players have to push on and on, to see how far they get before their commands are exhausted.


So same cards, just used in different ways and in different combinations, and without getting into CCG territory, there's great potential for doing Infantry & Marine packs, Light & Fast Armour, Heavies & Ogres, etc., (People could even trade swapsies if someone wants more GEVs and has loads of something to suit someone else's wants).

Do let me know what you think


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The Real Stabliser
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soltan gris wrote:
If you've played a lot of OGRE, there are certain force pools which work against the OGRE, and IMHO, everything else, which doesn't. There's a little wiggle room here, but not much. I fear that your idea of changing up the reinforcements will heavily unbalance the game in the favor of the cybernetic tank.


I think that as far as the basic and advanced scenarios on the ogre badlands map are concerned, you are absolutely right. The cards would add to much variation to scenarios that encourage replaying to achieved the perfect strategy. However, on the GEV/Shockwave/battlefields maps the map combinations alone allow more variations than we have scenarios for.
I imagine there are folk who would never play a military simulation with random forces, this will not be something they will use. However, there are other players who will enjoy playing the same game system with different problems to solve in each replay, who knows, the more exciting and balanced card created situations may be recorded and written up as a fixed scenario to the benefit those that don't like the card idea anyway
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The Real Stabliser
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TAG-UK wrote:
Hi Stabs,

Many thanks for the PM, I've run the four ideas listed below by the Ogre Maestros, including Talorien, so thought I'd post it here for everyone else too.

Taking onboard some of the suggestions made so far, the Card Deck is made up of three types of Card:
* Enemy Forces Card
* Friendly Forces Card
* Games Objective Card (this last one could be terrain to secure, VPs to earn, allsorts of stuff)


I think some of this was covered in the Gettysburg thread (http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=91882&highlight=g...) on the sjg forum, if both players are drawing from the same deck it will be easier for forces to become unbalanced, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. other ways to balance forces may be used (ie the card could just be considered the option to spend your pool of reinforcement points this turn)

Quote:
The actual use of the Cards I've then set out below:

1. Solo-play. A Combination Deck of mainly Enemy Forces with some Friendly Forces as Reinforcements for the Solo player, and some additional cards setting out Victory Objectives, whether that is amount of enemy to destroy, or terrain location to take, etc.,


As far as solo play goes I think it needs to be recognized that its going to be very difficult to achieve unless restrictions are put in place, and probably starting from very simple beginnings and build up would be a good idea (ie a single cybertank defence, preferably one of the smaller ones possibly reinforced with a second one if it becomes immobilized. Fixed defence structures like laser towers would also be much easier than a fleet of GEVs)
I'm starting to think of other card systems in games that could give us clues how to do this like GWs chainsaw warrior, and I think AHs Blackbeard used the same cards for multiple purposes.

Quote:
2. Straight Game. A Units-only Deck (no objectives) that provides all players additional random units to encounter or reinforce. So Red player has to draw a card - if it's Red forces, he gets a new unit on table, if it's Blue card, he has to hand it over, and has handed the Blue player more reinforcements.


Both players drawing from the same deck would create imbalances, drawing cards the benefit your opponent will exaggerate the imbalance, only by trying it out will we find out if its still fun to play.

Quote:
3. Co-Operative/Convention Deck. Another Combination Deck, run by an umpire or umpires, that provides enemy and objectives for co-operating players to battle against.

I have limited experience of this, input from those who run any wargames at conventions would be good. Do you restart scenarios for each person who comes along, do you try to keep the flow going, do you get players to cooperate, or play like a relay team?
I suppose with 6e and the 4 battlefields maps a long battlefront could be used, with individual players only playing on one of the boards, but have them all joined up to represent a front. Each new player gets a few cards worth of reinforcements to start with I imagine. Should be fun.

4. Long Game. A larger Combination Deck, with Units (friendly and enemy) and Objectives, where a player or players are involved in a Blitzkrieg-style campaign, to be fought for several hours over a long 'scrolling' map (i.e., place one board adjacent as and when you need it). The deck provides objective after objective, and wave after wave of enemy forces, and some reinforcements, and the Blitzer players have to push on and on, to see how far they get before their commands are exhausted.


Maybe this type of game works best with the umpire, as it sounds like you are not so much competing against the defender as the scenario. Almost a beat the best previous attempt. 'Charge of the light tank brigade' - Can you get to the guns at the end of the valley before they wipe you out?

Quote:
So same cards, just used in different ways and in different combinations, and without getting into CCG territory, there's great potential for doing Infantry & Marine packs, Light & Fast Armour, Heavies & Ogres, etc., (People could even trade swapsies if someone wants more GEVs and has loads of something to suit someone else's wants).

Do let me know what you think


'Trade swapsies' ? That IS getting into ccg territory

I'd like to keep the personality aspect of the cards under the spotlight, without having a little story detail on the cards it might as well be a die roll on a reinforcements table.
The original ogre scenario came with a story, Iron mountain came with a story, the Icepick scenario came with a story. They are the ones we remember best.
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