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Subject: Discussion Thread for You Know, For Kids - A Family-Friendly Math Trade rss

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Harper Hobbs
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Cool, I'm in. Thanks for clearing that up.
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Bhobs wrote:
Cool, I'm in. Thanks for clearing that up.
I noticed you added a bunch of other games too.
As a new math trader, one thing you should be careful about:
For the other games, if you list the same wants, for example:
Tobago "wants" games A,B,C
Castle Keep "wants" games A,B,C

that runs the risk of you getting 2 copies of Game A, in exchange for Tobago & Castle Keep.
The ways to avoid this are to have different wants for the different games
OR
read up on the Math Trade help files on how to do "duplicate protection".
If you do Duplicate Protection you can ask for the same wants for the 2 games and won't risk getting 2 copies of the same game.
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Bhobs wrote:
Does Galaxy Trucker not qualify as a family game??
Looks like no one answered this...
Look at the game page for Galaxy Trucker and under subdomain it says Thematic, so it is not categorized as a family game. However, this is an "inexact science" and done by user votes, if you expand the poll you see that 18% of users voted Family Game, it's just not majority. So for purposes of this trade it wouldn't be Family Game.

However, if I understand the rules correctly, someone could still post Galaxy Trucker if they posted 3 other items that ARE family games.

(That's why I prefer pure unrestricted trades, the rules tend to be complicated and restrictive otherwise soblue)
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Byron Campbell
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Hey there, I've never done a math trade so I have a couple questions. Can we put up an item that's already on the list, or does each entry need to be unique? Also, how do we indicate our preferences for trade?
 
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Stoic Bird
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JohnnyDollar wrote:
However, if I understand the rules correctly, someone could still post Galaxy Trucker if they posted 3 other items that ARE family games.
That's correct. Also:

-Everyone gets 1 "freebie" even if they haven't posted 3 items.
-Anything on the request list is eligible, and since he added GT to the request list, now anyone can add it.

JohnnyDollar wrote:
(That's why I prefer pure unrestricted trades, the rules tend to be complicated and restrictive otherwise soblue)
No more complicated than most of the games we play

I like both, for different reasons. You're right that you get a better diversity of items in unrestricted trades, but you tend to get interesting on-theme items you don't necessarily see in the big trades (e.g., Electronic Stratego in my Cult of the Old trade, Jack's crazy Olympic game in this one). I am a little surprised that there aren't toys and puzzles yet (though we tend to just give those away when we're done with them, so maybe others also don't have a bunch of stuff lying around).

The reason I added the request list rule is that I wanted to make sure people who had on-theme items but only want off-theme items could still participate and have a shot at getting something they want (which helps not only them, but everyone).
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Stoic Bird
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kittenhoarder wrote:
Hey there, I've never done a math trade so I have a couple questions.
Welcome!

kittenhoarder wrote:
Can we put up an item that's already on the list, or does each entry need to be unique?
Duplicates are welcome.

kittenhoarder wrote:
Also, how do we indicate our preferences for trade?
Using the Online Want List Generator (OLWLG). There's info about it here - check it out, and post back here if you have any more questions. I (or somebody) will be glad to help!
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Stoic Bird
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I see we've got several newcomers in this trade - welcome all! As such, this is a good time to reiterate the golden rule of math trades:

Never put an item on your want list if you wouldn't be happy making that trade!

It may sound obvious, but it's surprisingly easy to get carried away and add items to your want list that you don't actually want for that item - and, therefore, be disappointed if that trade goes through.

What I'd recommend before submitting is to look at the summary view (not the checkboxes) and picture trading your item for the item on its list that you're least interested in. If you wouldn't be happy seeing that trade on the results, take it off the want list. I do this myself, and it's saved me a few times from potentially being unhappy with my trades.

Also remember that ranking items in the OLWLG is basically only for ease of use; some trades take into account user priorities, but most (including this one) don't. Therefore, an oft-added addendum to the golden rule: always assume you'll end up with your lowest priority want. Sometimes you'll be pleasantly surprised, more so if your valuations don't match the mainstream, but if you keep those two things in mind, you'll have a much happier time with trades.
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Lito Carmona
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Hello. I have a quick question. I play Dominion with my kids, and I was wondering if that would be considered acceptable for this math trade?

Thanks in advance for letting me know.

Nevermind. It looks like I can do it under the 3x1 rule anyway.
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Byron Campbell
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VolcanoLotus wrote:

Using the Online Want List Generator (OLWLG). There's info about it here - check it out, and post back here if you have any more questions. I (or somebody) will be glad to help!
I added a game to the geeklist; do I need to do something different for it to show up on the OLWLG, or does it just take time? Thanks!
 
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Mark Raciborski
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kittenhoarder wrote:
VolcanoLotus wrote:

Using the Online Want List Generator (OLWLG). There's info about it here - check it out, and post back here if you have any more questions. I (or somebody) will be glad to help!
I added a game to the geeklist; do I need to do something different for it to show up on the OLWLG, or does it just take time? Thanks!
Just went thru the same question, I forgot how a math trade works, think batch run aka someone runs a program that updates things. I couldn't figure out why I couldn't map anything from my trade list. They do it more often in the beginning, then taper off somewhat as the additions slow.
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Stoic Bird
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danamark wrote:
kittenhoarder wrote:
I added a game to the geeklist; do I need to do something different for it to show up on the OLWLG, or does it just take time? Thanks!
Just went thru the same question, I forgot how a math trade works, think batch run aka someone runs a program that updates things.
Right. To save server resources, the moderator has to manually resynchronize, and can't do so more than once an hour. One benefit of this approach to users is that I can look at edited items before a resync to ensure that no one is violating any of the editing rules.

danamark wrote:
I couldn't figure out why I couldn't map anything from my trade list.
You can still add items to Step 4, even if your games haven't shown up yet. You can also rank them and such, and then just check the boxes once your items are added. (In the past, I've sometimes done this even before I've added items to the GeekList, just to get a feel for what's in the trade and trying to figure out how to bundle my offerings.)

danamark wrote:
They do it more often in the beginning, then taper off somewhat as the additions slow.
That wasn't intentional for me; more a function of me being home most of the day Saturday and not on Sunday When I'm moderator, you can pretty much expect I won't resync between about 10 PM and 8 AM (Eastern), and today and tomorrow I'll probably only do one during the work day (i.e., lunch) and more in the evening.
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Harper Hobbs
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Thanks Jeremy for helping us out with all of our questions. You have been more than a gracious host. I had on last question. In Step 4 next to the names of the games we want (the screen where you check what games in your collection you would trade for the games on your want list) there is a blank box. What do you do with that? Is that who we list priority i.e. 1,2,3??
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Stoic Bird
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Bhobs wrote:
Thanks Jeremy for helping us out with all of our questions. You have been more than a gracious host.
You're quite welcome - thank you for participating!

Bhobs wrote:
In Step 4 next to the names of the games we want (the screen where you check what games in your collection you would trade for the games on your want list) there is a blank box. What do you do with that? Is that who we list priority i.e. 1,2,3??
Yes. In this trade (and the vast majority of math trades), that number is purely to help you organize your wants. It sorts in descending order, so what I do is use the dollar value of the game/bundle to keep the high value ones at the top. Since it won't impact the results at all, you're welcome to use whatever system works for you, or no system

Also, a handy trick if you change your mind on an item: if you enter "delete" without the quotes in that box, it'll remove the item from your list when you next save changes.
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Jeremy:
I was just checking the deadline date/time for the wants submission...
and, want to say THANK YOU for doing an early afternoon deadline!!!

The last few trades I've been in, the deadline has been pretty late in the evening and for those of us on the east coast it's been very painful, as the results always take longer to finish than anticipated. But it's hard to go to bed without knowing the results. So this way I won't have to stay up until 2 AM, awesome!
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Harper Hobbs
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I need to mention this again to preference what I'm about to say. This is my first math trade and please understand that I don't mean to offend by this comment. But, is it normally the case that people try to pawn off their crap in order to get a Massive upgrade in these things.

For example: Is the strategy to give some sorry sap tic-tack-toe in order to start a chain "trade" reaction that could potentially land you Agricola?

I only say this because I am disappointed at some of the stuff being put up (again sorry if this isn't proper). It just seems like I can go to the local store and buy some of these items for the same price as shipping would be.
 
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Matt Crawford
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I don't think most people put up their unwanted stuff in order to trade up in value, hoping to get lucky. I think most people put up their unwanted stuff because they don't want it, and want to trade for something. Usually that will be something comparable in value.

So I guess my answer is, yes there is a lot of stuff you won't want, stuff that is not very valuable. But I don't think people's intentions are bad. And it never hurts to have the junk in there, except for how tedious it is to wade through so much of it sometimes.

To combat that, the OLWLG has a nice search feature (click the magnifying glass icon) that searches for stuff on your wishlist. That's what I use almost exclusively, followed by a quick glance through all the items.
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Colls
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Yes. Also, "one person's trash is another person's treasure." I've certainly traded down, without missing the item I sent off to someone else.

gatchaman wrote:
I don't think most people put up their unwanted stuff in order to trade up in value, hoping to get lucky. I think most people put up their unwanted stuff because they don't want it, and want to trade for something. Usually that will be something comparable in value.

So I guess my answer is, yes there is a lot of stuff you won't want, stuff that is not very valuable. But I don't think people's intentions are bad. And it never hurts to have the junk in there, except for how tedious it is to wade through so much of it sometimes.

To combat that, the OLWLG has a nice search feature (click the magnifying glass icon) that searches for stuff on your wishlist. That's what I use almost exclusively, followed by a quick glance through all the items.
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Stoic Bird
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Colls wrote:
Yes. Also, "one person's trash is another person's treasure."
True. There's stuff in every math I can't imagine anyone wanting, but I'm sure people also thought that about, for example, the Overpower decks a few math trades ago that were on my wants.

You never know what people are looking for, and just because something is ready available cheap for those of us in more urban areas doesn't mean our friends in the country (or outside the U.S., for that matter) have the same access.
 
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Harper Hobbs
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I was actually pointing to the fact that I can drive to the store and buy some of the stuff listed for the same price (+/- a few dollars) as it will cost for me to ship MY game.
 
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Bhobs wrote:
I was actually pointing to the fact that I can drive to the store and buy some of the stuff listed for the same price (+/- a few dollars) as it will cost for me to ship MY game.
Yeah you absolutely have to take into account shipping.
I can usually fit my games into a USPS flat rate medium box, so ~$12.
So it doesn't make sense to do games that could be bought for $10 or less. I usually only try to trade for games that would cost me $20 or more, that's the point of "appearing returns" on a traded game. (opposite of "diminishing returns? )
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VolcanoLotus wrote:
and thanks for not overlapping
It's a shame that others aren't quite as considerate. That utter lack of consideration for others is the reason why I'm skipping that one.
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Bhobs wrote:
I was actually pointing to the fact that I can drive to the store and buy some of the stuff listed for the same price (+/- a few dollars) as it will cost for me to ship MY game.
Right - I can, too, but part of my point is that A) not everyone lives near stores and B) not every item will be expensive to ship. I've got at least one item I expect to be less than $4 even if I have to ship to California, and I had a roommate in college who grew up in rural Colorado, an hour from literally any commercial development and four hours from anything resembling shopping choices.

I do see your point, and what I typically do when deciding what/if to bundle is look at items in previous recent math trades to see if they had wants or not. There's not an easy way to do that, though, so I don't expect others to go through that hassle, especially if it's at the expense of checking out games in the current trade so they'll have longer want lists

I do think a lot of it is people wanting to get back what they paid for an item, not necessarily its current worth, which (from what I've read) is a pretty innate human trait, and not exclusive to math trading.
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anglotiger wrote:
VolcanoLotus wrote:
and thanks for not overlapping
It's a shame that others aren't quite as considerate. That utter lack of consideration for others is the reason why I'm skipping that one.
On the plus side, people (in the U.S.) who prefer unrestricted trades should be happy about my running restricted ones, as it seems to prompt a near-immediate unrestricted(ish) trade (or concurrent, in this case)

I am glad he pushed the deadline out, at least. I may still join it, depending on how much I have to ship from this one. I didn't get the impression he was intentionally trying to hurt this trade. I would've been happier if he'd waited to open it, but I'm not letting it bother me. There's already a bunch of great stuff in this trade, including one of my biggest wants, so as long as people don't start jumping ship, I'm still happy
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VolcanoLotus wrote:
I didn't get the impression he was intentionally trying to hurt this trade.
I agree. He was just in the mood for a math trade, and didn't want it to be open to everyone because he doesn't want to have to bother looking at shipping policies (by his own admission earlier this evening) so he jumped in and immediately started one - preventing the unrestricted one that I had stated that I was about to run when this one was done.

But there are no rules about showing consideration for others...

Quote:
I would've been happier if he'd waited to open it, but I'm not letting it bother me. There's already a bunch of great stuff in this trade, including one of my biggest wants, so as long as people don't start jumping ship, I'm still happy
Ooooh - curious now - about what that want is... (I know it's not one of my items)
 
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anglotiger wrote:
so he jumped in and immediately started one - preventing the unrestricted one that I had stated that I was about to run when this one was done.
I know this is off-topic, but I think that ship already sailed. If there is a "proper" place for *this* discussion, feel free to point me to it.

I noticed your mention of an upcoming trade, but only because I happened to be monitoring a thread or two that you mentioned it in, and neither was one that all MT organizers would necessarily read. Is there a central point for people to go to coordinate upcoming math trades? If not, then I can imagine that someone (him, me) could start one without realizing that someone else was planning to do one. I want to make sure I subscribe to the central location, if there is one, to avoid stumbling into a situation like this myself.

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