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Mage Knight Board Game: The Lost Legion» Forums » General

Subject: Sneak Preview - Part 4b rss

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Paul Grogan
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Elite Units this time. There are 6 different Elite Units in the expansion. 2 each of the Sorcerers and Delphana Masters and then 4 different Heroes.



I chose the white heroes as I was in a white mood at 6am this morning when I couldnt sleep, but the other heroes are all different. So, it might look like the Elite Units are all about Ranged Attack, since thats what the Sorcerers do, but the other heroes do not give ranged attack.

The Heroes are the opposite of the Thugs (which I know I didnt preview), but basically repuation is doubled when recruiting and like it says on the card, if you want to get them to help you do certain things, you need to convince them to help you.

The Delphana Masters, well.... how good are these guys (and gals)!

The "!" next to their influence cost means that they cannot be recruited by any other means other than influence. They cannot be recruited by the Call to Glory Spell, the stronger effect of Banner of Command Artifact or chosen as a combat reward. Also, they cannot be a target of the Call to Arms Spell.


Preview 5 will be next week. Not sure what to cover yet, so watch this space.
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Simon Kamber
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And the mandatory only-really-relevant-in-theory question:

What happens if you recruit heroes, or thugs, along with each other. Do the bonuses and penalties stack?

And a more practically relevant one:

What if you recruit two groups of heroes in one interaction, do you still only double your influence once?
 
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Pat G
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I assume with the Delphina Masters that you can use them in all phases of combat in the same turn? So Reduce Armor during Ranged, Prevent Attack during Block/Assign Damage, and Wipe Fort/Resist in Attack all as part of the same combat?

The Sorcs are nice, they are almost Expose as a Unit which is always nice.

The Heroes, well just a good all around unit for the dungeon crawling nice guy.
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Filip Murmak
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Dulkal wrote:
And the mandatory only-really-relevant-in-theory question:

What happens if you recruit heroes, or thugs, along with each other. Do the bonuses and penalties stack?

And a more practically relevant one:

What if you recruit two groups of heroes in one interaction, do you still only double your influence once?


quoting rules:

If you recruit more Thugs or more Heroes Units during the same interaction, this effect counts only once. You also cannot recruit both Heroes and Thugs during the same interaction!
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Sean
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Can't wait for The Lost Legion.
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Plei Forejoy
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Ye gawds, the Delphana Masters are literally Chill, Expose, Earthquake, and Exploding Shield all-in-one. All four powers can be used (if you have the mana) in almost any manner in a combat...

Not to mention their 3 Armor is Resistant to all.

Pat does have the right question about this unit though... is their activation spread throughout the entire combat or only for one phase? I am guessing the latter, but waiting for clarification.
 
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Tom Steynen
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Wow, the Delphana Masters seem quite powerful. Though I'm wondering if you'll every be able to recruit them and still use their full power in the remaining game time. Unless you use Call to Glory of course and that spell already was powerful.
 
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Plei Forejoy
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Tekar wrote:
Unless you use Call to Glory of course and that spell already was powerful.

Note:
PaulGrogan wrote:
They cannot be recruited by the Call to Glory Spell, the stronger effect of Banner of Command Artifact or chosen as a combat reward. Also, they cannot be a target of the Call to Arms Spell.
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Pat G
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Delphina Masters can only be recruited with Influence. This is indicated by the "!" next to the cost and explained in the post by Paul.

Question on Thugs: Can you recruit Thugs is you are at "X" on the rep track? Thematically it would make sense, but is there a new exception in the rules to allow it? If yes what bonus do you get for the "X" space.

Question with Heroes bonus: If you are at +5 on the rep track and you double that to 10 from the Heroes do you still have 1 left over to use for other things during interaction or does the bonus only apply to the recruitment of the Heroes.
 
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Tom Steynen
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CMoor213 wrote:
Delphina Masters can only be recruited with Influence. This is indicated by the "!" next to the cost and explained in the post by Paul.

Question on Thugs: Can you recruit Thugs is you are at "X" on the rep track? Thematically it would make sense, but is there a new exception in the rules to allow it? If yes what bonus do you get for the "X" space.

Question with Heroes bonus: If you are at +5 on the rep track and you double that to 10 from the Heroes do you still have 1 left over to use for other things during interaction or does the bonus only apply to the recruitment of the Heroes.

Ah, that will teach me to read the text and assume I know the game well enough to not need extra explanation. Though I'm glad my worries have been dealt with.
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James Palmer
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I'm glad to see some more good units available at the village. I've always felt that villages should be more than just crappy versions of monastaries.
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Duke Of Lizards
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I'm drooling a little bit. These are all amazing units.
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James Palmer
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I'm also glad to see more ranged attack and more things that drop fortifications. It felt like once you had some experience with the original Mage Knight, ranged attacks lost a lot of their shine (especially when playing the regular take-the-city scenarios where they would be rendered mostly useless.) IT feels like focussing on range attacks will be a more viable option in the expansion.
 
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Plei Forejoy
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CMoor213 wrote:
I assume with the Delphina Masters that you can use them in all phases of combat in the same turn? So Reduce Armor during Ranged, Prevent Attack during Block/Assign Damage, and Wipe Fort/Resist in Attack all as part of the same combat?
Jebbie wrote:
Pat does have the right question about this unit though... is their activation spread throughout the entire combat or only for one phase? I am guessing the latter, but waiting for clarification.


On second thoughts, it does not matter. The abilities of the Delphana Masters are (usually) used before Ranged even begins. Their abilities are all effects, which lasts throughout the battle, and are not Attacks nor Blocks of any sort. Simply designate the targets of the effects and continue with the Ranged/Block/Damage/Attack resolution.
 
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Christoph M.
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Regarding the icons, I'ld say the first two (red and blue) abilities are activated during the block phase, the other two (green and white) during siege/ranged-phase.
 
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Michael Pustilnik
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These are way cool. Thanks, Paul!

Here are my first impressions:

Heroes: Very easy to get if you've been a Boy Scout all game. The only elite unit that can be recruited in villages. Sometimes you just need high numbers for your attack or block, and heroes certainly have that. Their Range Attack 7 is remarkable, and can pick off an unfortified Gunner or Freezer white monster by itself, and can provide most of the ranged attack needed to kill a High Dragon. Since there are four of these in the pool, Heroes are likely to show up, so preserving your reputation so you can recruit Heroes late in the game seems important. Maybe you don't want to burn down that monastery in round 1 after all!

Sorcerers: They don't have high attack, and they can't block at all. They won't help much against big bruiser enemies, nor are they very good in a PvP. But, that is not what they are there for. Their green ability is great against Guardians, Fire Dragons, and Ice Dragons. This is a good unit in some scenarios because it helps you kill enemies that are very tough to kill otherwise.

Delphana Masters: These are very tough to get. They are only recruitable in cities, and Call to Glory and Call to Arms is disallowed. If you do get them, they are just incredible, mainly for their ability to target different enemies at once. I could imagine using their green and white abilities on the same Guardian, then picking it off with Night Sharpshooting. Would it be legal to delay their green ability, so as to use the red, blue, and green abilities in the same block phase? Delphana Masters are weak in a PvP, but they are the ultimate city smashers if you have enough mana.
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Pat G
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Jebbie wrote:
CMoor213 wrote:
I assume with the Delphina Masters that you can use them in all phases of combat in the same turn? So Reduce Armor during Ranged, Prevent Attack during Block/Assign Damage, and Wipe Fort/Resist in Attack all as part of the same combat?
Jebbie wrote:
Pat does have the right question about this unit though... is their activation spread throughout the entire combat or only for one phase? I am guessing the latter, but waiting for clarification.


On second thoughts, it does not matter. The abilities of the Delphana Masters are (usually) used before Ranged even begins. Their abilities are all effects, which lasts throughout the battle, and are not Attacks nor Blocks of any sort. Simply designate the targets of the effects and continue with the Ranged/Block/Damage/Attack resolution.


It does matter if you are using something like the new artifact Soul Harvester that gives you a crystal for killing an enemy. Say you use 2 effects in the block phase but don't have the mana to power the white effect yet. Then in the attack phase you kill the first enemy with the Soul Harvester and gain a white crystal. Can you then use that white crystal with the Delphina Masters since it is still part of the same overall combat?
 
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Patrick Korner
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Oof. Getting the influence is tricky, but otherwise Delphana Masters are Da Bomb.

These are all very cool. Can. Not. Wait.

pk
 
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David desJardins
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Power creep is often an issue with expansions. It seems like there's some of that here. We're seeing several things that, in the right circumstances, can be significantly stronger than anything of equal cost in the base game.

Galaxy Trucker: The Big Expansion has Shield Boosters and some other components, of which you might say the same. It's not necessarily bad if expansion elements are "better" than what was in the base game. But I'm always a little bit cautious about it.
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Lazareth Minnelli
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They look awesome Paul, can't wait to try em out.
 
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Michael Pustilnik
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DaviddesJ wrote:
Power creep is often an issue with expansions. It seems like there's some of that here. We're seeing several things that, in the right circumstances, can be significantly stronger than anything of equal cost in the base game.


These units actually seem pretty balanced to me. Compare the white Heroes to Amotep Gunners. They both cost about the same. They both have Attack 5 or Block 5. Gunners have Ranged Fire Attack 6 for red mana, while the white Heroes have Ranged Attack 7 for white mana. The Heroes are recruitable in more places, but sometimes you have to pay influence to get them to participate, which can be annoying.

Sorcerers are great against monsters with resistances, but not so good if you need a lot of Attack or Block. They don't have the mana producing abilities that make Fire Mages and Ice Mages so good.

Delphana Masters are amazing against multiple white enemies. But it is not easy to get them on your team . . .

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Paul Glickman
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I agree in general, but sometimes a game can be too balanced, and your different choices don't matter enough. A bit of power creep can be nice. Everything here costs more mana to be powerful, and so we may be seeing more versatility creep than Power creep.

It remains to be seen whether this is occuring here, and I've never played a Vlaada expansion.

I am worried about there being too many different units though. The number increased by 20%, but game length and units in the middle haven't changed (probably). Thugs and Heroes can both moderately change the power balance between positive and negative reputation. I'm not sure how much yet.
 
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Lee Fisher
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Are there then different cards with the same name ("Heroes"), or did I just misunderstand what Paul meant?
 
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Pat G
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The Green Heroes are shown in the demo vids / Essen vid. I imagine that there is one Heroes card per color since he made the distinction that he chose the white Heroes.
 
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Lee Fisher
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CMoor213 wrote:
The Green Heroes are shown in the demo vids / Essen vid. I imagine that there is one Heroes card per color since he made the distinction that he chose the white Heroes.


Yeah I just wish they could have called them something to distinguish them. Do any other cards share a name, but have different stats?
 
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