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Subject: Practices to Help Beginner Corporations rss

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El-ad David Amir
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Well said! This was an excellent read. I don't have much to add (since I PMed you my suggestions ), but I would like to reinforce one point-

FileAccess wrote:
You don't have to rez everything: ...

You really don't have to. Seriously. It's too easy to get into the habit of rezzing everything. Rezzing an ICE costs you two resources: Credits and information (for the sake of drama, let's call it "Secrets" from now on). Credits are obvious enough, waste them on ICE that does not hinder the Runner well and you'll end up unable to rez the good stuff and advance Agendas. Secrets is more tricky. As FileAccess mentioned, the Corp has all the information. Any piece of ICE you rez causes you to lose some of the information. Keep the Runner and the dark and he will be unable to make optimal decisions.

Example: You have a Remote Server with two pieces of ICE on it, a rezzed Tollbooth and an unrezzed Wall of Static. Kate has Gordian Blade installed, plays Tinkering on the Wall of Static and starts a run. At this point, rezzing the Wall of Static will cost you three Credits, cost Kate just one Credit, and tell her to get Battering Ram next. You just lost an expensive Secret and gained very little in exchange.

These situations often come up with R&D or HQ. Unless the Runner is one Agenda away from winning, you might want to forgo rezzing ICE on these servers every once in a while in order to save Credits and keep the Runner guessing.
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Richard Linnell
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Maybe this is slightly advanced beyond what you are going for here, but some of the biggest blunders that I see beginner corps making:

1) Know the pacing of your deck (and your opponent's). General rule of thumb: Big ICE decks should be normally be played slow(Weyland, HB). Drawing cards is not usually the corps best move.

2) Don't be too obvious and/or use set patterns. Install advance, advance may be the fastest way to score Pri Req next turn, but it isn't always the best.

3) Protecting an agenda with 4 other cards in HQ is often better than protecting it with non-run ending ICE.

I disagree slightly about Archives - protect it when it needs protecting. ICEing archives against someone other than Noise can be a waste of ICE and credits. Of course, the most important piece of advice for anyone looking to improve in this (or any LCG/CCG) game is: know the card pool, and secondly, know the meta.

As a final piece of advice: Runners hate it when your whole turn consists of click, click, click, take 3 credits (or better 7 with melange). Every time I take a turn like that, the runner starts eyeing all my unrezzed stuff warily.
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Conny Karlsson
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solidhavok wrote:
I disagree slightly about Archives - protect it when it needs protecting. ICEing archives against someone other than Noise can be a waste of ICE and credits.


And I'd disagree with you there since a sudden sneakdoor could potentially cost you several agendas unless you're carefully managing your hand (which you often times can't because of unlucky draws). A single ice makes any sudden runs on your archives to get to your HQ less likely since they don't know how much it'll cost them or if it's even worth it. I'm not saying it should be your number one priority, but the threat has to always be acknowledged.
 
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Contig the fallen
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solidhavok wrote:

As a final piece of advice: Runners hate it when your whole turn consists of click, click, click, take 3 credits (or better 7 with melange). Every time I take a turn like that, the runner starts eyeing all my unrezzed stuff warily.


I was wondering about this; it feels like a "limp along" move (like thinking when you're the leader in Glory to Rome), but it's nice having credits to threaten the runner.
 
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Richard Linnell
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Druni wrote:
solidhavok wrote:
I disagree slightly about Archives - protect it when it needs protecting. ICEing archives against someone other than Noise can be a waste of ICE and credits.


And I'd disagree with you there since a sudden sneakdoor could potentially cost you several agendas unless you're carefully managing your hand (which you often times can't because of unlucky draws). A single ice makes any sudden runs on your archives to get to your HQ less likely since they don't know how much it'll cost them or if it's even worth it. I'm not saying it should be your number one priority, but the threat has to always be acknowledged.


Granted - I'm not used to having 3 agendas kept in hand very often. ICEing archives is a great move if you ever have a forced discard, and throwing a piece of ICE on there is fine anytime - if it doesn't come at the expense of protecting something else. Really I suppose it comes down to again: knowing the card pool, and the more advanced tactic of reading the board. If the runner isn't in a position to play and use Sneakdoor, then don't bother. If you're playing a criminal who has the rest of his rig out and a pile of credits, then definitely ICE it up.
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Paxton Rice
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contiguity wrote:
solidhavok wrote:

As a final piece of advice: Runners hate it when your whole turn consists of click, click, click, take 3 credits (or better 7 with melange). Every time I take a turn like that, the runner starts eyeing all my unrezzed stuff warily.


I was wondering about this; it feels like a "limp along" move (like thinking when you're the leader in Glory to Rome), but it's nice having credits to threaten the runner.


Not really. It's just gathering power - especially with Melange.
 
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Chris Jackson
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contiguity wrote:
solidhavok wrote:

As a final piece of advice: Runners hate it when your whole turn consists of click, click, click, take 3 credits (or better 7 with melange). Every time I take a turn like that, the runner starts eyeing all my unrezzed stuff warily.


I was wondering about this; it feels like a "limp along" move (like thinking when you're the leader in Glory to Rome), but it's nice having credits to threaten the runner.


It really depends on what else you can reasonably do. If your best options are drawing cards and taking credits, I'd take the credits almost every time.
 
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solidhavok wrote:
I disagree slightly about Archives - protect it when it needs protecting.

Then again, if you only protect it when you feel that you should this is likely to draw unwanted attention to your archive.

I guess this could be a bluff to make the runner run archive uselessly but still.

There was this game where I ended up with a full hand of agendas (don't ask me how). So I was forced to discard some. Even thou I was mighty worried about it, I never did protect the archive.

After the game before I revealed I ask my friend what he would do if I placed an ice in front of archive. My friend (knowing that I almost never protect archive) answered without any hesitation that he would have run it.

And he would have won too... right then and there.

Since then I now protect my archive out of the blue for no apparent reason with some extra ice which I may or may not rez. That way, when I really do need to protect it it no longer feels odd and out of place.
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Noah D

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Really great advice here!

The point about rezzing Ice having a cost in information (secrets) as well as credits is a really excellent one!

I was playing a game with byronczimmer just the other day and had an account siphon in hand. I ran against the single unrezzed Ice defending HQ and he let me in without rezzing even though he had plenty of credits; Quite annoying. I was Shaper, so no free credits from the access, and instead of knowing exactly what icebreaker I needed to play in order to pull off a successful Account Siphon I was left with nothing except accessing a card that bryon decided he didn't care if I saw.

That also leads to an interesting point, on HQ and R&D it's often worthwhile to keep one piece of Ice (preferably an end-the-run of a different type than the rezzed ice on that server) unrezzed, purely to discourage (or thwart) the use of events such as Account Siphon or Maker's Eye.
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B C Z
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This doesn't matter just yet, but it will once the first data pack comes out (which isn't too far off).

Make sure your Agenda are working for you
In the Core Set, your Agenda are, with very minor variance, decided by your choice of Identity. With the introduction of new Agenda in the first data pack (1 per Corp faction we're told), that will change.

Once we have choice in the matter, making sure that your Agenda mesh with the overall goals of the deck and don't just act as points to be scored becomes another factor to consider when deck building.

For example, if you have no way to tag because you've removed that threat from your deck, then Private Security Force becomes just a points card and nothing more. If you remove Priority Requisition, you will lose the ability to rez an ICE 'for free'.

The Agenda choices will matter... soon.
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FileAccess wrote:

Know where your money is coming from: Not to plagiarize myself too much, but this adage is as true for the corporation as it is for the runner if not moreso. You are only as strong as your bankroll is deep. Unrezzed ICE is useless if you can't pay to rez it, traces aren't going to be successful if you can't back them up when you need to, and you can't advance cards if you don't have the credits to pay for it. There are few situations more embarrassing than a Runner hitting your Junebug when you don't have the single required credit to pay to activate it. In terms of shoring up your economy, I would suggest that you aim to have at least 9 economy cards in your deck. You should split them across "burst" (e.g.: Hedge Fund, Beanstalk) and "recurring" (e.g.: PAD Campaign, Melange) economy cards. Pick your favorite nine, test them out, and go from there.


I actually divide economy cards into a number of categories:
Action Driven (Melange Mining)
Burst (Beanstalk Royalties, Hedge Fund)
DRIP (PAD Campaign, Adonis Campaign, some Weyland ICE)
Discount (Akitaro)

Each has its own pros and cons, but as we get more economy cards (or at least I hope we do), Corporations will be able to specialize in economy type and fine tune their options.

I also don't agree that nine is a magic number. The goal is to get your economy to pay for the plans of your deck. If you have a lot of high cost ICE, you're going to want stronger economy cards. Action driven economy requires you eat up another resource over DRIPs. Nine may be the median of the curve, but I've certainly played with more and less in an effort to tune the deck's flow.
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B C Z
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Something to realize with the deck building guidelines then.

45-49 cards; 20-21 Agenda points

20%: 9-11 Agenda (currently, don't know how that will change)
40%-50%: 18-20 ICE
20%: ~9 Economy

That's 36-40 cards

That only leave less than 20%... less than about 10 cards for 'tricks and stuff'.

Many new players fall into this trap because they see all these cool upgrades and locations and assets and forget that every card needs to be pulling its weight.

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FileAccess wrote:
byronczimmer wrote:
Something to realize with the deck building guidelines then.


I'm aware of what my beginning recommendations entail in terms of deck construction.

I'll again agree that this isn't a formula for the Best Deck Ever™. I do think that it is a good starting point for people getting their feet wet.


to the contrary - they are very good recommendations and echo my own from months ago (go digging, they're in there somewhere).

I have gotten to the point where I have x 'slots' set aside and as I deck build, I fill the slots. Every card has to justify its existence to me and my final analysis tools have to show me that the deck won't over/under produce money, has enough time to complete its objectives and has enough ways to stop expected Runner shenanigans as I go about my business.
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Anthony
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From a player new to (and frankly frightened of) the whole deck-building thing, these posts have been very helpful and encouraging.

Thanks!
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Comet S
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Zhab wrote:
solidhavok wrote:
I disagree slightly about Archives - protect it when it needs protecting.

Then again, if you only protect it when you feel that you should this is likely to draw unwanted attention to your archive.

I guess this could be a bluff to make the runner run archive uselessly but still.

There was this game where I ended up with a full hand of agendas (don't ask me how). So I was forced to discard some. Even thou I was mighty worried about it, I never did protect the archive.

After the game before I revealed I ask my friend what he would do if I placed an ice in front of archive. My friend (knowing that I almost never protect archive) answered without any hesitation that he would have run it.

And he would have won too... right then and there.

Since then I now protect my archive out of the blue for no apparent reason with some extra ice which I may or may not rez. That way, when I really do need to protect it it no longer feels odd and out of place.


Your bluff worked on making the runner not interested in accessing the Archive, but the idea of protecting Archive, as mentioned above, is to prevent such unpleasant surprises as a Sneakdoor attack.

In your example, if you discarded an agenda because you had a full hand, the runner could have easily pulled a Sneakdoor on the unprotected archive and won anyways, although he really did NOT have any interest in your Archive to start with - it was just a "casual" run. Of course, each person has a difference play style, but I personally would almost always Sneakdoor an unprotected Archive sooner or later. devil
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cloudymaple wrote:
Your bluff worked on making the runner not interested in accessing the Archive, but the idea of protecting Archive, as mentioned above, is to prevent such unpleasant surprises as a Sneakdoor attack.

In your example, if you discarded an agenda because you had a full hand, the runner could have easily pulled a Sneakdoor on the unprotected archive and won anyways, although he really did NOT have any interest in your Archive to start with - it was just a "casual" run. Of course, each person has a difference play style, but I personally would almost always Sneakdoor an unprotected Archive sooner or later. devil


Of course there can be other reasons to protect your archive beside it being full of agendas. Specially when playing against criminal and anarch.

However I was playing against a shaper deck and I knew for a fact that sneak door was not in the deck.

But sneak door would not have won him the game. You see sneak door have you access HQ instead of archive. You don't access archive and then find out that it is pointless and so move on to HQ.

If sneak door would have been a possibility, this would have open an other bluff possibility. I could bluff the draw of some agenda and express the need to protect archive against sneak door (my HQ already being well protected). This match sneak door well as sneak door does not aim archive at all.

However, that was not a possibility in the game. My opponent had no interest in running archive and frankly there was enough other attractive target in play beside it. The only danger was the possibility of a casual run just for the heck of it.

Which almost did happen. One turn, my opponent feeling that he had an extra action left over felt like running archive. Struggling to keep my poker face up but still manage to keep it cool I said "great ! less money for you. Be me guess". Hearing that my opponent quickly changed his mind and use his last click to get 2 credits.

But yeah... it really could have happened. My reckless bluff saved me in the end. But bluff is something you want to use with reservation or it will lose it effectiveness. Still, protecting archive in that game would have been the wrong move due to my past playing style of never protecting it.

Which is why I now protect archive at random with a random ice. That even if there will be no sneak door beta in play or that I'm not playing against noise.

That way I can still bluff that my archive is empty and still discourage casual runs for the heck of it.

But of course, against criminal, noise or a new deck I know nothing about I'll pay more attention to archive from the start. But against both a player and a deck which I know by heart, protecting archive is more often than not a waste of time. But I still do it for the sake of those rare occasions where it really is needed. I just don't get out of my way or take risks for the sake of it.

Edit: Is suddenly realize that you may understand sneak door wrong.

FAQ wrote:
4.4 the run is considered successful (when successful abilities trigger)

4.5 Acess cards, then go to [ 5]


sneak door switch the type of the run at 4.4. By the time you access card at 4.5 this is already handled like an HQ run.

Note that Gabriel's ability trigger at the same time than sneak door. But since you get to choose which trigger's first, you resolve sneak door first which change to run to HQ and then resolve Gabriel to get 2 credits.
 
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Stan Adecla
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Zhab wrote:
Note that Gabriel's ability trigger at the same time than sneak door. But since you get to choose which trigger's first, you resolve sneak door first which change to run to HQ and then resolve Gabriel to get 2 credits.


Sneakdoor is not a triggered ability. It's a paid ability. You spend a click to initiate a run through archives that instead hits HQ if it is successful. You cannot change your mind and hit archives if you're successful in running with Sneakdoor.
 
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wakkowolf wrote:
Sneakdoor is not a triggered ability. It's a paid ability. You spend a click to initiate a run through archives that instead hits HQ if it is successful. You cannot change your mind and hit archives if you're successful in running with Sneakdoor.


Paid abilities and conditional abilities are both sub-types of Triggered Abilities (see rule book page 21).

rule book wrote:
In order to trigger a paid ability, a trigger cost must be paid.

...

In order for a conditional ability to trigger, a trigger condition must be met.


In this case sneak door is a paid ability which activate a temporary and mandatory conditional ability for the duration of the run on archive.

But no matter how you look at it, sneak door beta is indeed a triggered ability. As both paid and conditional abilities are sub-types of Triggered abilities. Moving on to next point.

The run is handled like a typical run on archive and this will not change. Unless the trigger point is reached. Which is the run being declared successful. At which point the temporary mandatory conditional ability activated earlier does indeed... triggers.

Are we done talking about technicalities ? I think this is outside the scope of this thread.
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Fantastic thread, sir. Thanks a lot from a beginner.
 
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Robin Lees
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Hi,

This is a great thread.

I would class myself as a total newbie, having only played a handful of games, and up until now, I've only played Corp, and with the cards suggested in the rules.

I want to ask a question a step back from where you start the OP.

When selecting which corp to play, how do the 4 compare, is there a general theme/mechanic, to the style in which each of the core corporations play?

(Similary, but not a valid post here, how about the Runners?)

Thanks
 
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Michael Bacon
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Agh, the original post is missing.
 
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