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Subject: Euro vs Ameritrash. rss

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Sky Captain
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So yea, I'm new here. I've seen the terms "euro" and "ameritrash". I'd like clarification of what these mean. Yes, I know I may be exposed to some bias in these discriptions.
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Tony W
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Definition of Euro:
http://boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/Eurogame#

Definition of Ameritrash:
http://boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/Ameritrash
 
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Clinton Coddington
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Simply put "euro" games come from Europe and often have wooden bits and pieces, example Settlers of Catan, Caylus and Stone Age. "Ameritrash" games are made in America and tend to have a lot of bling, whether this is to cover up for the fact the games stink is based on the game, examples Arkham Horror, Twilight Imperium and Axis & Allies.

I'm 100% sure other BGG'ers can explain it better than me.
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Owain B
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Here's a handy little thread with a few viewpoints: Just what is a Euro?
 
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Jeff Hinrickson
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A euro is typically a game that is made in Europe (mostly Germany).

The mechanics are mostly not involving dice so not much luck.

********************

Ameritrash is typically a war game of sorts that is heavy on the dice for combat.
 
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Laura Creighton
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Try these links.

http://boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/Ameritrash#
http://boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/Eurogame#

Ooops, ninja'd
 
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Sky Captain
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Thanks all, I guess I'm mostly used to ameritrash? Although it would seem one of my faves Game of Thrones 2nd ed. would fall squarely in the middle. Although xbox introduced me to Carcassonne electronically and my wife and I still play it occasionally.
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Ryan S
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I tell people the difference is as such:

Euro games = light to moderate on theme, more (keyword more) heavily focused on removing luck factors such as dice or random draws.

American (hate the term Ameritrash) games = moderate to heavy on theme, more heavily focused on luck factors such as dice or random draws.

Of course, you'll have games that bridge those definitions. Caylus is a euro that has almost zero luck aspects to it. This is fantastic for people who love heavy strategy, but pretty harsh/unforgiving for newcomers.

Carcassonne is a euro, and currently my favorite game ever. It has a light theme, a lot of strategy, but it also has a pretty high degree of luck factor (which tiles you randomly draw). Expansions help to mitigate the luck factors a bit by adding new ways of getting points and impacting other players.

Mice and Mystics is an American game with a very heavy theme (it comes with a story book and the game rules basically tell you to stop what you're doing and read various story paragraphs throughout your chapters. You're not even supposed to use one of the characters until you've finished chapter 3 of the campaign. The game relies on dice rolls for combat and cheese distribution, adding a lot of randomness to the game.

Neither one is better than the other, they're just different. I break out different types of games based on the group I'm playing with.

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Carl Garber
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I am curious where the connection between "Euro" and lack of dice/randomness comes from? Is there a catalog of older games that had these before this newer wave? For me Settlers defines "Euro" for me as it was the earliest game I learned of in this genre. After that it was stuff like Carcassonne and TTR that have their fair share of luck. Even today the Euro's I enjoy all have an element of chance and many have dice. The only games I see in the "no luck" category are worker placement games which seem to be a newer development. What would be luck/dice free Euro's that people would point to as defining Euro?
 
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John Squires
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CarlG wrote:
I am curious where the connection between "Euro" and lack of dice/randomness comes from? Is there a catalog of older games that had these before this newer wave? For me Settlers defines "Euro" for me as it was the earliest game I learned of in this genre. After that it was stuff like Carcassonne and TTR that have their fair share of luck. Even today the Euro's I enjoy all have an element of chance and many have dice. The only games I see in the "no luck" category are worker placement games which seem to be a newer development. What would be luck/dice free Euro's that people would point to as defining Euro?


I know what you mean. Don't think of it as luck/dice-free but rather that dice/luck tends not to determine the winner to the same degree as many of the games we grew up with. This aspect of designer games out of Europe (mostly from Germany) was refreshing for this reason when they first began coming out.

Now (more so than before) Ameritrash, Euro, themed, strategic, abstract, etc. games tend to be coming from all corners of the globe.
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David B
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KillerTaco wrote:
Simply put "euro" games come from Europe and often have wooden bits and pieces, example Settlers of Catan, Caylus and Stone Age. "Ameritrash" games are made in America and tend to have a lot of bling, whether this is to cover up for the fact the games stink is based on the game, examples Arkham Horror, Twilight Imperium and Axis & Allies.

I'm 100% sure other BGG'ers can explain it better than me.



Except now the lines are blurring. Especially given that some "Ameritrash" games are made in Europe and some Euro's are made in the US. In fact, it can be argues Acquire was the first "Euro" and it was made in the US.
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mbosely wrote:
So yea, I'm new here. I've seen the terms "euro" and "ameritrash". I'd like clarification of what these mean. Yes, I know I may be exposed to some bias in these discriptions.


I don't really consider country of origin to have a part in the name anymore, personally. For me, I see a game and I say "did the designer start with a mechanic in mind or a theme in mind?" For games like Arkham, Battlestar, Camelot, Smersh, ToAN..I consider these to be Ameritrash games (which I happen to enjoy more than most euro games, personally).
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RJD
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qiagen wrote:
pfctsqr wrote:
KillerTaco wrote:
Simply put "euro" games come from Europe and often have wooden bits and pieces, example Settlers of Catan, Caylus and Stone Age. "Ameritrash" games are made in America and tend to have a lot of bling, whether this is to cover up for the fact the games stink is based on the game, examples Arkham Horror, Twilight Imperium and Axis & Allies.

I'm 100% sure other BGG'ers can explain it better than me.



Except now the lines are blurring. Especially given that some "Ameritrash" games are made in Europe and some Euro's are made in the US. In fact, it can be argues Acquire was the first "Euro" and it was made in the US.


And Risk, arguably the grandfather of Ameritrash (being a dice heavy, popular wargame) is French (La Conquête du Monde).



The lines aren't blurring now. The only time Ameritrash referred specifically to country of origin is way back when it occasionally got used as an insult for the usual American mainstream boardgames like Monopoly, Sorry, etc. In what it's come to mean here on the 'Geek, it's never referred only to American games since Space Hulk, Blood Bowl, and pretty much most of the GW boardgame catalog were considered AT right from the beginning. And games like Shogun/SamuraiSwords/Ikusa and especially Fortress America are posterboys for AT even though, as pointed out, Risk is French.
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Paul DeStefano
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KillerTaco wrote:
"Ameritrash" games are made in America


No, the America part of ameritrash is just pun off of eurotrash.

Pretty much any game by Games Workshop is ameritrash and they ain't American.
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Clinton Coddington
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John Weber
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Yeah, the stuff about country of origin defining the genre of game is almost ridiculous. For example, a game I consider one of the top 10 Eurogames of all time -- Vegas Showdown -- was designed and published in the USA.
 
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Peter Putnam
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mbosely wrote:
So yea, I'm new here. I've seen the terms "euro" and "ameritrash". I'd like clarification of what these mean. Yes, I know I may be exposed to some bias in these discriptions.


mbosely, Darktower and everygame great game you've rated is totally Ameritrash. When you turn on your computer at work and open up excel to work on a spread sheet your playing a Eurogame.
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Jeff Hinrickson
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John Weber wrote:

Yeah, the stuff about country of origin defining the genre of game is almost ridiculous. For example, a game I consider one of the top 10 Eurogames of all time -- Vegas Showdown -- was designed and published in the USA.


No sure if I would categorize Vegas Showdown as a Euro.

To me this would be one of those games that doesn't fall into the "Euro" or "Ameritrash" categories.
 
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Jeff Hinrickson
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pfctsqr wrote:
KillerTaco wrote:
Simply put "euro" games come from Europe and often have wooden bits and pieces, example Settlers of Catan, Caylus and Stone Age. "Ameritrash" games are made in America and tend to have a lot of bling, whether this is to cover up for the fact the games stink is based on the game, examples Arkham Horror, Twilight Imperium and Axis & Allies.

I'm 100% sure other BGG'ers can explain it better than me.



Except now the lines are blurring. Especially given that some "Ameritrash" games are made in Europe and some Euro's are made in the US. In fact, it can be argues Acquire was the first "Euro" and it was made in the US.


Acquire would be more abstract than Euroish, IMHO.
 
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Carey J
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jjloc wrote:
pfctsqr wrote:
KillerTaco wrote:
Simply put "euro" games come from Europe and often have wooden bits and pieces, example Settlers of Catan, Caylus and Stone Age. "Ameritrash" games are made in America and tend to have a lot of bling, whether this is to cover up for the fact the games stink is based on the game, examples Arkham Horror, Twilight Imperium and Axis & Allies.

I'm 100% sure other BGG'ers can explain it better than me.



Except now the lines are blurring. Especially given that some "Ameritrash" games are made in Europe and some Euro's are made in the US. In fact, it can be argues Acquire was the first "Euro" and it was made in the US.


Acquire would be more abstract than Euroish, IMHO.


And what is abstract? I've heard the term thrown around before but no one could really define it to my satisfaction.
 
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Carl Garber
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re: acquire

I ran a couple of polls for my Top 100 Euro Games geeklist and acquire got 20 out of 23 votes as a Eurogame in one and 25 out of 34 votes in the other.
 
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chris thatcher
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Then of course you get games like Cyclades that are hybrids
 
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Jeff Hinrickson
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GilgaTex wrote:
jjloc wrote:
pfctsqr wrote:
KillerTaco wrote:
Simply put "euro" games come from Europe and often have wooden bits and pieces, example Settlers of Catan, Caylus and Stone Age. "Ameritrash" games are made in America and tend to have a lot of bling, whether this is to cover up for the fact the games stink is based on the game, examples Arkham Horror, Twilight Imperium and Axis & Allies.

I'm 100% sure other BGG'ers can explain it better than me.



Except now the lines are blurring. Especially given that some "Ameritrash" games are made in Europe and some Euro's are made in the US. In fact, it can be argues Acquire was the first "Euro" and it was made in the US.


Acquire would be more abstract than Euroish, IMHO.


And what is abstract? I've heard the term thrown around before but no one could really define it to my satisfaction.


My understanding of abstract is you only have one action, and that is to move/place (for example it would be placing a piece in acquire, in chess it would be moving a piece) one of your game pieces - where you move it is the strategy but it's the same action turn after turn.
 
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Johan Haglert
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mbosely wrote:
So yea, I'm new here. I've seen the terms "euro" and "ameritrash". I'd like clarification of what these mean. Yes, I know I may be exposed to some bias in these discriptions.
Others have already put links for explainations but then some others talk about locations and I don't think that make any sense at all.

I don't know what the official definition would be but I would describe it as:

Euro - Likely a set environment / little randomness with much open information. No player elimination. Likely strict/rather straight mechanics and rules.

Ameritrash - Think the opposite of the above as in cards with may have their own functionality or game changing affect, random draws / dice rolls = unsure results/outcome. Possibly player elminination.



The euro environment may feel more samy with similar strategies / things which work (interaction between players may interfere with that though.)

The ameritrash environment may allow for more flavor, variation and cool happenings but with somewhat less control of what will happen or be the outcome of things.
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Dave K
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I think you'll find that most people play and enjoy both to some extent. There's an eternal war over:

1) what the exact definitions of both are
2) which category controversial game X falls into
3) whether the term 'ameritrash' is offensive or not

I wouldn't worry too much about any of those, but they always make for lively threads laugh
 
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