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Subject: "In-A-Tin" / "Express" Print-and-Play Design Contest - Discussion Thread rss

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Michele Esmanech
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I don't quite understand the rules, concerning "copyright": since "express games" are smaller, quicker and faster version of established games, are we allowed to use the art of the original game, the "xpress" version is based on (granted the publisher has no issues, with, it, of course)?

I would understand "yes", but I want to make sure.

thanks
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SiddGames wrote:
Just to clarify: an express game (a dice game) has no limit on size, right? It just sounds like many people are trying to fit an express game inside a tin, when the rules sound like it can be a tin game OR an express game OR a tin express game.

Thanks!
Correct you can do one OR the other OR both.
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Tyraziel wrote:
Stormtower wrote:

Let me know if you use that idea. Otherwise, I'll push it into my game.
Go ahead and make yours too! I was going to try to print mine out on heavier paper to make it less fiddly than "normal paper." I have tons and tons and tons of mini dice to use for components. What were you going to use for components?
I was planning to stick to things I've used before:

-- 2 to 4 of my half-inch cubes as custom dice, if I end up with dice. That can easily be replaced by lookup tables printed on a card.

-- the "tiles" would likely be cardstock, perhaps 2 sheets glued together. I think they're labeled as 60 or 65 lb cardstock, which is supposed to be 160-175 gsm.

-- the multi-tile is something that bears experimentation.
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Ikim wrote:
I don't quite understand the rules, concerning "copyright": since "express games" are smaller, quicker and faster version of established games, are we allowed to use the art of the original game, the "xpress" version is based on (granted the publisher has no issues, with, it, of course)?

I would understand "yes", but I want to make sure.

thanks
I am not a lawyer however -

My understanding is, as long as you get permission from the publisher, then there shouldn't be a problem. If you don't get permission, then you are breaking copyright laws by using Art that you do not have a proper claim to use.

Be smart, don't break copyright law. Always best to stray away from using something you didn't create.

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Stormtower wrote:
Tyraziel wrote:
Stormtower wrote:

Let me know if you use that idea. Otherwise, I'll push it into my game.
Go ahead and make yours too! I was going to try to print mine out on heavier paper to make it less fiddly than "normal paper." I have tons and tons and tons of mini dice to use for components. What were you going to use for components?
I was planning to stick to things I've used before:

-- 2 to 4 of my half-inch cubes as custom dice, if I end up with dice. That can easily be replaced by lookup tables printed on a card.

-- the "tiles" would likely be cardstock, perhaps 2 sheets glued together. I think they're labeled as 60 or 65 lb cardstock, which is supposed to be 160-175 gsm.

-- the multi-tile is something that bears experimentation.
I found the image of a game board of a game that shall not be named and used it for some testing, and it worked rather well. I like making "tile rooms" so you can make different maps if you want to, or you could also just build a rectangular board.

I'm interested to see how similar and how different our two efforts will become.
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Pelle Nilsson
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I would worry more about trademark law than copyrights if making an express version of a game.
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pelni wrote:
I would worry more about trademark law than copyrights if making an express version of a game.
I'll update rule #1 to include trademarks too.
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Michele Esmanech
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Tyraziel wrote:
pelni wrote:
I would worry more about trademark law than copyrights if making an express version of a game.
I'll update rule #1 to include trademarks too.

Ok, but how can someone create an express X, if I can't even use the term X. For example: I would like to create Androidexpress.. but I cannot even use Android, or any IP related to the game, so why even bother?
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Gene Moore
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Ikim wrote:
Tyraziel wrote:
pelni wrote:
I would worry more about trademark law than copyrights if making an express version of a game.
I'll update rule #1 to include trademarks too.

Ok, but how can someone create an express X, if I can't even use the term X. For example: I would like to create Androidexpress.. but I cannot even use Android, or any IP related to the game, so why even bother?
You get creative.

I'm thinking about making an express game called "It's a Dice Game After All!". Days of Wonder doesn't own the copyright to "Orcs", "Elves", or "Wizards"; only the art is protected as IP.
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Mike Haverty
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It might bear reiterating that "express" doesn't mean it has to be a light/dice version of an existing game, just that it's a dice-based game.
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Ikim wrote:
Tyraziel wrote:
pelni wrote:
I would worry more about trademark law than copyrights if making an express version of a game.
I'll update rule #1 to include trademarks too.

Ok, but how can someone create an express X, if I can't even use the term X. For example: I would like to create Androidexpress.. but I cannot even use Android, or any IP related to the game, so why even bother?
RoboDerby: Express and Infection Express are two great examples of creatively making an express game while not using the original name of the game. You could also use Paleo-Express for Stone Age, Monolith Express for Dark Tower. Or even the name of a game I'm going to try to work on Heroics in a Tin, based on a game that shall not be named.
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todd sanders
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ohh monolith express

the game wherein i buy a bunch of those recordable greeting cards, pull out the electronics, record a dark wizardly computer voice saying things on each and put them in a tin with the game and players randomly select and listen to them during key game moments.
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Tyraziel wrote:
Ikim wrote:
Tyraziel wrote:
pelni wrote:
I would worry more about trademark law than copyrights if making an express version of a game.
I'll update rule #1 to include trademarks too.

Ok, but how can someone create an express X, if I can't even use the term X. For example: I would like to create Androidexpress.. but I cannot even use Android, or any IP related to the game, so why even bother?
RoboDerby: Express and Infection Express are two great examples of creatively making an express game while not using the original name of the game. You could also use Paleo-Express for Stone Age, Monolith Express for Dark Tower. Or even the name of a game I'm going to try to work on Heroics in a Tin, based on a game that shall not be named.
Actually Robo Derby was originally called Robo Rally Express and BSG Express was BattleStar Galactica Express before they were asked to change name.

As for Android, call it Robot or Cyborg or Gynoid Express.
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dumarest123 wrote:
ohh monolith express

the game wherein i buy a bunch of those recordable greeting cards, pull out the electronics, record a dark wizardly computer voice saying things on each and put them in a tin with the game and players randomly select and listen to them during key game moments.
I got to thinking about this and it would be really neat to have a game called "Dark Server" or "Dark Server Express"

Instead of brigands you have bugs.
You'd have different resources like "threads / memory / cpu cycles"
You could try to negotiate your priority (i.e. get more threads / memory / cpu cycles) with the "scheduler" or "resource monitor"
The keys are encryption/decryption codes that you must use to get into the main frame.
At the end you fight against /dev/null or /dev/null could take away half your resources never to be seen again.

All we'd need is some cool art and this would be a sweet game!
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Michele Esmanech
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Tyraziel wrote:
Ikim wrote:
Tyraziel wrote:
pelni wrote:
I would worry more about trademark law than copyrights if making an express version of a game.
I'll update rule #1 to include trademarks too.

Ok, but how can someone create an express X, if I can't even use the term X. For example: I would like to create Androidexpress.. but I cannot even use Android, or any IP related to the game, so why even bother?
RoboDerby: Express and Infection Express are two great examples of creatively making an express game while not using the original name of the game. You could also use Paleo-Express for Stone Age, Monolith Express for Dark Tower. Or even the name of a game I'm going to try to work on Heroics in a Tin, based on a game that shall not be named.

Ok, I see your point there.
Settled, then.
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Gene Moore
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I've added my game to the geeklist.

[WIP] It's a Dice Game, After All! - Playtesting
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Konrad Anft
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I started a thread for my (probable) entry of Wonders Express.

Good luck to all.
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I've started a WIP thread for The Cottonwood Contest: Cousins and added it to the geeklist:

WIP for "In-A-Tin" PnP Design Contest: The Cottonwood Contest: Cousins - Contest Ready


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todd sanders
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which geek list do i post my pre-entry to?


ah nevermind i see it is TBD right now.
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Ooo, ooo, ooo, I'm in, I'm in!!!

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Konrad Anft
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I do have a question concerning the starting point.

When am I allowed to use a prototype for a game for this contest? At what point in time does it change from a pre-contest entry (since the contest doesn't start till June) to a real entry?

Am I allowed to build a prototpye at all before June? Am I allowed to share it with fellow games and test it before the contest starts?

It all seems a bit vague... and seeing that there is already a card game available for playtesting, I feel the need to ask: May we finally cut our dice labels now and roll some dice, already?
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pidaysock wrote:
I do have a question concerning the starting point.

When am I allowed to use a prototype for a game for this contest? At what point in time does it change from a pre-contest entry (since the contest doesn't start till June) to a real entry?

Am I allowed to build a prototpye at all before June? Am I allowed to share it with fellow games and test it before the contest starts?

It all seems a bit vague... and seeing that there is already a card game available for playtesting, I feel the need to ask: May we finally cut our dice labels now and roll some dice, already?
Inevitably people will start working on a design before the official start date. Hence in my rules I stated --
The Rules wrote:

4) To compete for main prizes the game must not have a playable prototype before the posting of this thread. If your game has a playable prototype prior to this contest, and it hasn't been submitted to any other contests in a "Completed" state then you can compete for the "Best Pre-Contest" Prizes.
The thread was "Posted Sun May 5, 2013 5:44 pm"


To further clarify what "pre-contest" means - Any game that is in a prototype phase or later before the posting of the thread (as described above) is considered "pre-contest". For example my one game Cow Tipper was created before the 2 player pnp contest was a thought and I submitted it to the "pre-contest" category.


As far as I'm concerned you can start working on your game now, even build a prototype, the official start date was meant to give people some down time and allow for voting to take place on the 2 player pnp contest.
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Jeremy Peet
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One thing I wanted to mention was that in the US it might be difficult to find tins/containers that are labeled in ml or dl. Old tins/containers that will be re-used for the purpose of the contest may not be labeled at all or may only show how many ounces (oz) are contained in the tin.

I found this sight to help convert if needed:

http://www.convertunits.com/from/oz/to/ml

Hopefully I am on the right track with this.

100 ml = 3.38 oz

Does anyone know the rough measurements for a 100ml/3.3 oz rectangular tin?
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My game was started after Tyraziel posted the thread. It was actually seeing the thread that lit a fire under me to sit down and put pen to paper. I had made The Cottonwood Contest just because I wanted to, and saw the previous contest at the last minute (by noticing its microbadge in the new microbadge list, of all places). I enjoyed taking part in it, even if at the last minute, so when I saw the posting for the new contest I wanted to get in earlier.
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Sturv Tafvherd
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Germflinger wrote:
One thing I wanted to mention was that in the US it might be difficult to find tins/containers that are labeled in ml or dl. Old tins/containers that will be re-used for the purpose of the contest may not be labeled at all or may only show how many ounces (oz) are contained in the tin.

I found this sight to help convert if needed:

http://www.convertunits.com/from/oz/to/ml

Hopefully I am on the right track with this.

100 ml = 3.38 oz

Does anyone know the rough measurements for a 100ml/3.3 oz rectangular tin?
Well, in the original discussion, we were looking at Altoids tins

Stormtower wrote:
Puquak wrote:
To give a little more space, you could make size limit of the "tin" to a standard poker deck or double deck box.
Well, I had to Google it up. I should really go out and grab a tin.

Two (well... maybe more?) slightly different answers on the internet from people who measured their own tins.

Depth: 3/4 in.
Length: 3-1/2 in. or 3-13/16 in.
Width: 2-1/4 in. or 2-7/16 in.


And one from a store that seems to sell tins of the same dimensions:
http://www.adafruit.com/products/97

Quote:


Mint tin dimensions:
Top lid outer (not lip): 2.36" (59.9mm) x 3.75"(95mm)
Tin bottom: 2.3" (58.75mm) x 3.7"(93.9mm)
Inner: 2.24" (56.9mm) x 3.6"(91.5mm)
Height bottom section: 0.83" (21.28mm)
Height top section: "0.36 (9.26mm)
Corner radius .55" (14mm)
Based on those Inner dimensions, it seems like Bridge-sized cards will be a tight fit (2.25x3.5), and that's assuming the corner rounding matches up.
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