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Subject: Delano/Fitzgerald Variant. rss

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Shawn Low
Australia
Footscray
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Variant by Mark Delano and Mike Fitzgerald

We give the second player one more vp at the start of the game.

The most gold you can get on a turn is 6. You can use as many dice as you want on the gold but 6 is the limit you can get. You can only get one card a turn and the limit is 6 as to how many you look at. (You can use a 2- look at 2 then decide to use a 3 and look at 3 more - but still only take 1)

This variant weakens the Mercator and helps balance the Forum vs destruction strategy. The games may be shorter but hey, you just play again.

 
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Chris Dorrell
England
Darwen
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shawn_low wrote:
Variant by Mark Delano and Mike Fitzgerald

We give the second player one more vp at the start of the game.

The most gold you can get on a turn is 6. You can use as many dice as you want on the gold but 6 is the limit you can get. You can only get one card a turn and the limit is 6 as to how many you look at. (You can use a 2- look at 2 then decide to use a 3 and look at 3 more - but still only take 1)

This variant weakens the Mercator and helps balance the Forum vs destruction strategy. The games may be shorter but hey, you just play again.

Hi Mark & Mike

I'm not sure what your comments on numbers of cards and gold actually mean - maybe I'm misunderstanding your words. My understanding of the rules (and the way we play) is:-

- you may play all three dice on the money disk in a turn. If they are all 6s you collect 18 gold.

- you may play all three dice on the card disk in a turn. If they are all 6s you would look at six cards and keep one, look at the next six cards and keep one and then look at a further six cards and keep one.

As I see it you could therefore get a maximum of either 18 gold or 3 extra cards in one turn. Obviously you wouldn't have activated any card disks on that turn.

Is that how you're playing it?

Regards
Chris

 
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Nomadic Gamer
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Please see topic #4 under Rules Questions from a while ago....
 
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Chris Dorrell
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davedanger wrote:
Please see topic #4 under Rules Questions from a while ago....
Well remembered We got the ruling straight from the designer, did we not?!

I'm still interested in the basis for the original posting here?

Chris

 
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Derek H
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Chris Dorrell wrote:
I'm still interested in the basis for the original posting here?
Agreed. We played our first few games with an "only play one die on the card tile" approach (by mistake), thereby limiting us to a max of one card per turn... and playing with the correct rules is much more fun. As for the Mercator card buying up all your VP - well, you just have to watch out for your opponent amassing gold - and ideally strike first! I recently won a game where an opponent nearly bought all my VPs - but I was able to retaliate successfully by using all that gold to play two Centurio & then launch a serious counter-attack... there are lots of card combos that you can get to work against even a seemingly impregnable strategy. The game *does* flow very well in this regard.
 
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Mark Delano
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Another phraseology for the variant.

1. A max of 6 gold may be collected on a turn. More than one die may be placed on gold, but the gold collection caps at 6.
2. One card is kept from the card draw choice regardless of the number of dice used. A max of 6 total cards are looked at. Dice may be added one at a time, looking at the cards drawn before deciding whether to add another die.
3. Second player gets one extra VP.

As the base game is played destruction is almost completely helpless against a well played Forum/Mercator. The card/money flow is high enough that destruction can't keep up (7.5 gold and 1.5 cards a turn if each 4,5,6 is gold and 1,2,3 is cards). That means the person who gets the Mercator in their hand and waits to collect enough money to bankrupt their opponent will win most games. The opponent's only response is to try to run out the bank's VPs through Forums. Destruction will not get the job done.

This variant tames both the Forum and the Mercator by making destruction more powerful. Since only 6 gold can be collected a turn the Mercator is comparable with a Forum on a turn by turn basis (6 gold/turn is 3 VP stolen or 6 VP swing). Both Forum and Mercator are more vulnerable to the destruction cards, which can rapidly bankrupt an unwary opponent. This makes Towers and position movers more valuable, to protect from and avoid the attackers. The card draw powers are also improved, as the one card/turn limit otherwise can leave you card short.

It makes for more frequent short games, which may bother some but to me makes it a better choice as a filler. The frequent 30+ minute games with the original rules made it tough to pull out when time was short.

I concede that attackers might be too powerful now, but I think the range from powerful to weak cards is shrunk. The card to keep when looking through the deck isn't nearly so straightforward.
 
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Derek H
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Mark

I understand your rules - I just don't see how rules 2 and 3 relate to the Forum/Mercator combo you describe. Capping gold earned could certainly hinder the Mercator - as, indeed, could simply putting an upper cap how many VP he could buy in one turn - but why hinder players from keeping more than one card?

Rule #3 is one I have thought of before as "balance" for the opening position. It might be one we try (especially as I am always the "older" player!).
 
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Mark Delano
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gamesbook wrote:
Mark

I understand your rules - I just don't see how rules 2 and 3 relate to the Forum/Mercator combo you describe. Capping gold earned could certainly hinder the Mercator - as, indeed, could simply putting an upper cap how many VP he could buy in one turn - but why hinder players from keeping more than one card?

Rule #3 is one I have thought of before as "balance" for the opening position. It might be one we try (especially as I am always the "older" player!).
Rule 2 does two main things. Primarily it limits card flow without using card powers. Limited card flow stops the architect/senator from becoming too powerful without also incorporating the Aescelapinum or, umm, Demonic Tutor . Two card combos are fine to my mind, it's the one card combos I don't like. It also improves destruction's chance against the Forum, as the Forum player can't do a sudden rush of card draws when it starts falling behind (without, again, the card drawers). It makes every card precious and the turn's decisions that more agonizing.

Rule 3 is vital with destruction being more powerful. It gives the second player an extra bit of room if the first player starts off aggressive.

 
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Derek H
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Quote:
Rule 2 does two main things. Primarily it limits card flow without using card powers.
Mark

I understand your reasoning - I am not sure I agree with it. Yet. I have only played about dozen or so games and have not felt the need to introduce the changes you suggest... but that might change in another dozen or two. I would also prefer to alter the one card that is causing problems, rather than a blanket "upper limit" type rule that you suggest. For example, what if the Mercator had to pay 3 coins per VP; or pay using an increasing scale - 1 VP costs 1; 2 VP cost 3; 3 cost 6; 4 cost 10 etc. This would make unlikely that a player could buy a whole mass of VPs at one time - they would have to save up over a few turns; which would increase the likelyhood the opponent could attack them first.
 
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