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Crowdfunding: Kickstarter» Forums » General

Subject: IndieGoGo vs Kickstarter rss

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James Mathe
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There are many crowd funding sites including several new ones specializing in game. I know them all to just be a lot of hot air and expect them to go under in a year. But IndieGoGo has had some staying power and is an alternative to Kickstarter when you want to fund something outside the scope of kickstarter or if you cannot find someone to work with in the USA. While Kickstarter is certainly in need of many improvements, they are by far the king on this domain.

Continue reading here...

Indie No Go
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brian
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If KS was working for you, why even try IndieGoGo? After the Vanuatu debacle and the poor customer service from IGG, I won't pledge anything on IndieGoGo.

I don't care what company you are (and I have bought several things from you James), if it is on IGG, I won't support it. Just not worth it.
 
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James Mathe
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Agreed... but some people can't use Kickstarter cause of where they live and sometimes Kickstater rejects projects (initially they rejected my dice project).

James
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Nathan Morse
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Nice analysis, James. I'm experiencing this vicariously, because I have been peripherally involved in what ended up being kickstarter and indiegogo campaigns. The biggest challenge is when someone neither in the US nor UK want to run a kickstarter project, even if they are Amazon US vendors, they're hosed right now. They have to get a "local" partner who is in a position to accept the risks.
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Dave K
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I can speak only as a consumer here, I've never tried to run a campaign.

I've backed dozens of Kickstarter projects and generally been pleased with KS, the interface, and the payment processing. Their "discovery" stuff is a little weak (feels like it takes too many clicks to get to something) but it is functional. Overall, I like it. Also, a *very* important feature to me: I can cancel pledges.

Last I looked, IndieGoGo had a less impressive site and they do not let you cancel pledges. (I haven't checked in about three months, so please correct me if anything here is wrong.) They only accept Paypal and projects can ask to receive all funding even if goals aren't met, which is a project type I'm generally not going to back, as I don't know if anything can actually afford to be produced or not.

I'm extremely unlikely to back a project on IGG regardless of content, whereas I frequently back KS campaigns. That could change but it's hard for me to say if it will or not.
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Randall Bart
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ColtsFan76 wrote:
After the Vanuatu debacle and the poor customer service from IGG, I won't pledge anything on IndieGoGo.


What is "Vanuatu debacle"?
 
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brian
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Barticus88 wrote:
ColtsFan76 wrote:
After the Vanuatu debacle and the poor customer service from IGG, I won't pledge anything on IndieGoGo.


What is "Vanuatu debacle"?


So... Who still hasn't gotten their indiegogo backer copy?
Vanuatu on the way
Legal action after indiegogo failure
Just looked on IndieGoGO
Buying from the website. BEWARE
Reedition of Vanuatu
Indigogo rules
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Randall Bart
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ColtsFan76 wrote:
Barticus88 wrote:
ColtsFan76 wrote:
After the Vanuatu debacle and the poor customer service from IGG, I won't pledge anything on IndieGoGo.


What is "Vanuatu debacle"?


So... Who still hasn't gotten their indiegogo backer copy?
Vanuatu on the way
Legal action after indiegogo failure
Just looked on IndieGoGO
Buying from the website. BEWARE
Reedition of Vanuatu
Indigogo rules


Whuh??

I am not going to read all of that. From what I read they sent French rules to some Anglophone buyers. That seems slightly short of debacle, and I didn't read anything that makes it IndieGoGo's fault.
 
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Dave K
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We haven't seen a high-profile failure of a boardgame on KS yet either. At some point, it will probably happen and at that point we'll find out what the fallout is.

I don't think the terms of service for either KS or IGG have ever been tested in court. And of course, I Am Not A Lawyer and cannot give legal advice and have no special or domain knowledge that would give me insight into what would happen if it did.
 
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Steve Bachman
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Happymrdave wrote:
We haven't seen a high-profile failure of a boardgame on KS yet either.

Keep an eye on the Up Front project, it may become the first.
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matt way
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I tried backing a few projects on Indiegogo, and it was a disaster. They all failed miserably, were universally run by people who had no clue what they were doing, and I accidentally got into one of the "get your money no matter what" ones. Thankfully the Polish designer sent me back the money when it failed, but I was on the hook for the game plus $45 shipping to the USA.
But I don't even look there anymore. Not to mention its hard to surf the site. Kickstarter is way more reliable and easier to use.

Poliorcetes
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Ryan Lorence Syfargo
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Here's an interesting question, what are some of the successful IGG projects?
 
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Daniel Drickman
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I've backed 22 KS projects. I would not consider backing an indiegogo project. This is largely based on their inability to cancel your pledge. I have only ever cancelled one pledge which was for $1, but I feel that option is needed.
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Arthur chang
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fargy wrote:
Here's an interesting question, what are some of the successful IGG projects?


One that I backed was Wolsung. Everything was delivered as promised, and quickly, from Poland. The company is small but has been putting out good stuff the past few years so that's probably how you can judged whether to use IGG.
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Randall Bart
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DanKD wrote:
I've backed 22 KS projects. I would not consider backing an indiegogo project. This is largely based on their inability to cancel your pledge. I have only ever cancelled one pledge which was for $1, but I feel that option is needed.


Hmmm. I think cancellations are a problem. Don't pledge until you are ready.
 
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Daniel Drickman
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Barticus88 wrote:
DanKD wrote:
I've backed 22 KS projects. I would not consider backing an indiegogo project. This is largely based on their inability to cancel your pledge. I have only ever cancelled one pledge which was for $1, but I feel that option is needed.


Hmmm. I think cancellations are a problem. Don't pledge until you are ready.


Yes, you should pledge with the plan to keep it there. However, cancellations are a 100% requirement for me as project creators are allowed to make changes / go in different directions during the project, so I sure as heck should be allowed to change my mind as well.

Just a couple examples of why cancellations would be a requirement for me.

Up Front (if you pledged and then found the info regarding valley games after you pledges which caused you to change your mind)

Once upon a fable (similar reasons)

Also, I have seen several projects I was interested change stretch goals, art, gameplay mechanics, etc... during the project.

And again, I have only cancelled one pledge which I initially made for $1 to Dwarven Forge Terrain as I wanted to ask some questions in the comments section. Losing my $1 didn't hurt that project at all.


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Daniel Drickman
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And while I personally like to stay committed to projects I pledge for, having the ability to cancel actually helps games with their funding. It means people are far more likely to pledge early and higher amounts which generates more interest and funding.
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Ryan Lorence Syfargo
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Barticus88 wrote:
DanKD wrote:
I've backed 22 KS projects. I would not consider backing an indiegogo project. This is largely based on their inability to cancel your pledge. I have only ever cancelled one pledge which was for $1, but I feel that option is needed.


Hmmm. I think cancellations are a problem. Don't pledge until you are ready.


On the flipside, some companies like TMG like the early pledgers. Regardless if you eventually cancel.
 
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The only board game project I backed on Indiegogo was Among the Stars and everything went great with that. I wonder how much the same project would have made on Kickstarter.

I like Indiegogo because it covers a segment that (to my knowledge) has no place on Kickstarter: Non-project related donations. On Indiegogo, I sometimes donate some money to great ideas or simply to people I sympathize with - like for example people who lost their homes in the Oklahoma tornado.
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brian
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Barticus88 wrote:
ColtsFan76 wrote:
Barticus88 wrote:
ColtsFan76 wrote:
After the Vanuatu debacle and the poor customer service from IGG, I won't pledge anything on IndieGoGo.


What is "Vanuatu debacle"?


So... Who still hasn't gotten their indiegogo backer copy?
Vanuatu on the way
Legal action after indiegogo failure
Just looked on IndieGoGO
Buying from the website. BEWARE
Reedition of Vanuatu
Indigogo rules


Whuh??

I am not going to read all of that. From what I read they sent French rules to some Anglophone buyers. That seems slightly short of debacle, and I didn't read anything that makes it IndieGoGo's fault.

So then don't you think it makes more sense that the debacle is in the part you didn't read? You can get the gist of it in the thread titles if you don't want to read more than a couple posts in one thread

The project was late. Extremely late. It was supposed to be a simple reprint so no need to wait on design or artwork. The money wasn't even really needed for cash flow and was more a pre-order system of a popular game that just had a small print run. The designer lied about delivery many times and was MIA frequently. Some people still don't have their game. None of us have the expansion. The rules mix up was just salt in the wound.

IndieGoGo's response was to close his account until he responded. Which just prevented his ability to fulfill what he could and caused further delays. It also freaked people out when a project they backed was completely gone from their website with no notification of what was going on. Their correspondence was less than helpful, often rude, and rarely addressed the specific situation. They finally got to the point of refusing to answer some people's questions. While the project's failure wasn't their fault, they did nothing but make it worse.
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Randall Bart
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ColtsFan76 wrote:
So then don't you think it makes more sense that the debacle is in the part you didn't read?

Why did you refer me to so much that wasn't about the debacle?
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David Hoffman
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I like Indiegogo just fine. There is a potential problem with the site, however.

With Kickstarter, there is only one way a campaign will run: set a goal, set an end date, you either make your goal or not. If you make it, people give you money. If you miss it, they don't.

With Indiegogo, there are TWO ways for campaigns to go. The first is what I'll call the Kickstarter model (detailed above). The second, however, gives me pause: by the second type of campaign, people pledge money and, no matter if your campaign succeeds or not, you get their money.

I believe this is because IGG works with a number of not for profits and charities. So, if their goal is to raise $10,000.00, but they only raise $5,000.00, they can still put that money to good use. For charitable organizations, you're seeing a lot more "here's some money, I don't want anything."

But it's possible, I believe, to run an IGG campaign for a boardgame using the second method of crowdfunding.

Oh, and by the second method, IGG takes your money at the moment of your pledge.

This . . . worries me. Mostly because I think a lot of people -- including project originators -- aren't necessarily aware of the difference. I only found out about it after pledging $200.00 to a friends not-for-profit. She missed her goal but still took my money.
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Matt Wolfe
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ohbalto wrote:
But it's possible, I believe, to run an IGG campaign for a boardgame using the second method of crowdfunding.


Sure is. Look at Town Center, which is running right now: http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/town-center-a-game-in-3d. It uses the fixed funded model instead of the flexible funding model.

ohbalto wrote:
Oh, and by the second method, IGG takes your money at the moment of your pledge.


That's true, but the difference is Indiegogo refunds your pledge if the project goal is not met. So although you can't cancel your pledge on your own, you do at least have the comfort that you will get your money back if the project is not successful.

If project creators are not aware of the difference, then Indiegogo does a terrible job of educating project creators.
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brian
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Barticus88 wrote:
ColtsFan76 wrote:
So then don't you think it makes more sense that the debacle is in the part you didn't read?

Why did you refer me to so much that wasn't about the debacle?

I didn't think I needed to hold your hand through it. All of the threads have something to do with it. The failure was multi-faceted. You asked what Vanuatu was and I posted the relevant threads. Do what you want with it.
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Chris Smith
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merrox wrote:
The only board game project I backed on Indiegogo was Among the Stars and everything went great with that. I wonder how much the same project would have made on Kickstarter.


Funny you should say that, with the expansion going onto kickstarter instead (Should be today)

Be interesting to see what it gets to with that =) I'm getting the original game via the new kickstarter when they get around to posting it.
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